[{"data":1,"prerenderedAt":-1},["ShallowReactive",2],{"\u002Fpodcast\u002Fcto-special-39-leon-stephan-von-bling":3},{"podcast":4,"pickOfTheDayCount":43,"speakerCount":44,"relatedPodcasts":45,"transcript":46},{"id":5,"published_on":6,"type":7,"number":8,"title":9,"slug":10,"description":11,"transcript":12,"audio_url":13,"apple_url":12,"google_url":12,"spotify_url":12,"youtube_url":12,"cover_image":12,"banner_image":12,"speakers":14,"members":23,"picks_of_the_day":38,"tags":39,"tagsPrepared":40,"speakersPrepared":41},"d1672413-c140-4fd0-87e6-a14f70e895c8","2026-03-10T05:00:00.000Z","cto_special","#39","Leon Stephan von Bling","cto-special-39-leon-stephan-von-bling","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Mit 13 startete Leon Stephan seine Tech-Laufbahn vor der Kamera: selbst gehostete Game-Server und Linux-Tipps für zehntausende Zuschauer:innen auf YouTube. Was damals einfach Leidenschaft war, wurde zur Grundlage für alles, was später folgte – IBM-Projekte, ein eigenes App-Studio in Berlin und schließlich die Idee für ein eigenes Produkt.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Heute ist Leon CTO von Bling und baut dort eine App, die versucht, Hilfestellungen zu sämtlichen Lebensbereichen von Familien zu geben. Egal ob Bezahlkarten für Kinder, Anbindung von Schulen oder Mobilfunktarife von Familien. Im Gespräch mit Jan und Dennis berichtet Leon, wie er den Übergang vom gebootstrappten Dienstleister hin zur fremdfinanzierten Product-Company erlebt hat.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Leon berichtet außerdem, wie das Team von Bling die Produktentwicklung strukturiert: projektbasierte „Speedboats“, die neue Features bauen, während parallel Teams das große Ganze weiterentwickeln. Auch die Frage, wann wie viel Finanz- und Produkt-Logik selbst implementiert wird, anstatt diese auszulagern, diskutieren die drei.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Ein weiteres Kapitel in Leons Reise: die Übernahme von Finstep. Die Diskussion beleuchtet, warum dieses Thema finanzieller Bildung so gut in die Vision passt, wie die Integration technisch funktioniert und welche Lehren Leon beim Aufbau eines zweiten, diesmal fremdfinanzierten Unternehmens gezogen hat. Spoiler: Das Bootstrap-Mindset bleibt – inklusive konsequenter Nachverhandlung jedes einzelnen Vertrags.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Und natürlich geht es um die großen CTO-Fragen: Wie wählt man Technologien aus, die auch wirklich alle Edge-Cases eines Produkts abdecken? Wie geht man Übernahmen von anderen Firmen an und welche Rolle wird AI dabei künftig spielen? Und wir hören, weshalb Leon seinem jüngeren Ich raten würde, öfter auf das Bauchgefühl zu hören.\u003C\u002Fp>",null,"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.buzzsprout.com\u002F176239\u002Fepisodes\u002F18802396-cto-special-39-leon-stephan-von-bling.mp3",[15],{"speaker":16},{"id":17,"slug":18,"academic_title":12,"occupation":19,"first_name":20,"last_name":21,"description":22,"event_image":12,"profile_image":12},"041b2e57-54fc-4a36-943e-e78a1f452c25","leon-stephan","Gründer & CTO von Bling","Leon","Stephan","\u003Cp dir=\"ltr\">Leon Stephan ist Co-Founder von Bling ucnd verantwortet als CTO den Tech-Bereich. Er studierte Business Information Systems in Mannheim und arbeitete parallel bei einem der weltweit größten IT-Unternehmen. Nach seinem Studium gründete er NEON, ein App-Entwicklungsstudio und Technology-Accelerator mit Sitz in Berlin. Heute nutzen über eineinhalb Millionen Menschen Apps, die von NEON entwickelt wurden.\u003C\u002Fp>",[24,31],{"member":25},{"id":26,"first_name":27,"last_name":28,"occupation":29,"description":30,"normal_image":12},"47099351-508c-44d9-a2a2-855181c72ee8","Jan Gregor","Emge-Triebel","\u002F\u002F programmier.bar Tech Community Lead \u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Jan ist ein echter Technik-Fan mit einer facettenreichen Karriere, die sich über Web-, Mobile-App-Entwicklung und DevOps erstreckt. Dank seiner vielfältigen Rollen – vom Entwickler über den Teamleiter bis hin zum Vice President Development – verfügt Jan über einen großen Erfahrungsschatz in der Softwareentwicklung und Developer Advocacy.\u003Cbr>Seine Leidenschaften jenseits der Technik reichen von Tauchgängen an exotischen Orten über das Eintauchen in digitale wie analoge Spiele bis hin zum Abtauchen in gelungene Plot-Twists in Büchern und Filmen.\u003C\u002Fp>",{"member":32},{"id":33,"first_name":34,"last_name":35,"occupation":36,"description":37,"normal_image":12},"958f6624-c721-4ff9-8a97-69148f540945","Dennis","Becker","\u002F\u002F Podcast-Host","\u003Cp>Dennis ist Head of Development bei Lotum und kümmert sich liebevoll um die Entwickler:innen und deren Weiterentwicklung. \u003Cbr>In den Podcastfolgen übernimmt Dennis gerne die Moderation. Beim täglichen Tischtennis ist er immer am Start und seit wenigen Jahren passionierter Kitesurfer. Mittlerweile ist er auch Vibe Coder mit Leidenschaft und überzeugt, dass seine Kolleg:innen AI unterschätzen. \u003C\u002Fp>",[],[],[],[42],{"first_name":20,"last_name":21,"profile_image":12,"slug":18,"description":22,"event_image":12,"academic_title":12},488,208,[],{"id":47,"service":48,"supported_features":49,"speakers":52,"raw_response":60},"5268a053-343c-4a27-9b17-6d4ee51c215d","deepgram",[50,51],"timestamps","diarization",[53,56,58],{"identifier":54,"name":55},"0","Jan",{"identifier":57,"name":34},"1",{"identifier":59,"name":20},"2",{"metadata":61,"results":75},{"transaction_key":62,"request_id":63,"sha256":64,"created":65,"duration":66,"channels":67,"models":68,"model_info":70},"deprecated","c4f7da5b-8414-439c-bc31-8a61851fd063","dbfc58e56702c0a7625648f56a3d5d7c525810a30c0fa9e825ecfb612f789a80","2026-03-06T17:05:08.851Z",4523.9824,1,[69],"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3",{"91f8eabe-2126-4ed4-9e56-d480032309b3":71},{"name":72,"version":73,"arch":74},"2-general-nova","2024-05-09.3071","nova-2",{"channels":76,"utterances":38867},[77],{"alternatives":78},[79],{"transcript":80,"confidence":81,"words":82,"paragraphs":36670},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbar Spezial CTO Special Sonderausgabe. Weiß nicht, so jetzt sehr viel Spezial. Aber so ist es halt bei uns. Ja. Keine Folge wie die andere. Und heute mit mir im Studio ist Dennis Becker. Dennis Becker. Und wer ist mit dir im Studio, Dennis? Jan Gregor M Getriebe. Das hast Du wunderbar gesagt. Das ist viel einfacher, als wenn ich das selber machen muss. Okay. Das ist Arbeitsteilung hier am Arbeitsplatz. Dabei haben wir uns erst so kurz vor diesem neue Intro entschieden. Jetzt hast Du schon wieder mich völlig den Puls hochgetrieben. Ja, Du, man musst ja auf Zack halten, weißt Du? Ja. Wer rastet, der rostet. Dennis, Du bist auch großer Fan vom Europapark, oder? Ja. So. Du wolltest, wie heißt das, Maskottchen vom Europapark? Jetzt jetzt, ich glaub, die Folge kommt zu spät raus, aber jetzt heißt, wir könnten son programmierbarhörer eintreffen im Europapark machen. Das Weil im Dezember fahren wir ja mit 'n paar Kolleginnen noch mal in den Europapark. Ja, das wird, also das wird halt für diese Folge nix mehr, aber vielleicht können wir also die News noch mal aufnehmen. Ja, das können wir ja, ja, kommen wir hin. Also, Anyway, wie heißt das Maskottchen vom Europapark? Die Euromaus? Ja, die Euromaus, genau. Wolltest Du schon immer mal die Euromaus im Portemonnaie haben? Ich hatte lieber 'n Bild von der Euromir in meinem Portemonnaie als die Euromaus. Leon, Du siehst, ich hab es versucht, ja? Ich ich hab es versucht, ihn dahin zu bringen. Er hat das nicht verstanden. Wir haben heute im Studio unsere Die Euro Maus. Unseren Gast Leon Stefan, der nicht die Euro Maus ist. Oh. Leon ist der CTO von und Mitgründer von Bling und Bling bietet unter anderem Bezahlkarten für Kinder an und Du kannst sie bestellen mit dem Motiv der Euromaus. Das wär jetzt eigentlich meine Einleitung gewesen, aber Du bist nicht so ganz drauf angesprungen. Ja, doch, aber die die Frage ist ja, also wie alt schätzt Du mich? Also die Frage ist ja, wie alt fühlst Du bist? Und ob auf mein Kind das Richtige für mich ist, das erzählt uns jetzt Leon. Erst mal begrüßen wir ihn vielleicht. Hallo Leon, schön, dass Du da bist. Super. Vielen, vielen lieben Dank für die Einladung. Hallo Jan, hallo Dennis. Ihr sprecht über Ed und Edda aus dem Europapark entsprechend. Das sind die beiden Maskottchen. Siehst Du, Du hast er hat sogar er hat sogar die Intro nicht richtig hinbekommen mit der Euro Maus. Das siehst doch früher Euro Maus, oder? Ich bin verwirrt. Okay. Genau und ja, ich bin zufälligerweise auch jetzt im Winter über Weihnachts geht's für mich immer einmal im Jahr mit meinem Mitgründer Nils, immer in den Europapark. Da sind wir immer ein Wochenende. Das machen wir immer aus Tradition jährlich, witzigerweise, dass ihr da auch diese Sane fahrt. Na cool. Ist Edda sone Ergänzung wegen Gleichberechtigung irgendwann gewesen oder sind Edda und Edda schon gemeinsam gestartet oder war das irgendwann nur mal Ed? Weißt Du das? Das ist nur, das müsste man jetzt die Europapark Hardcore Fans, glaube ich, an dem Punkt fragen, weil sozusagen Bling selbst hat ja keine Relation mit dem Europapark. Wir sind natürlich Europapark Fans, aber das kann ich dir leider gar nicht beantworten. Okay, sehr gut. Ich mein, können wir jetzt nicht im Prinzip, wenn wir jetzt übernächste Woche in den Europapark fahren, können wir das jetzt nicht als Recherchereise abschreiben, weil wir das für diese Podcastfolge quasi dringend klären müssen? Vielleicht gibt's auch Pressetickets. Ja, müssen wir gucken. Ne, aber bevor wir über Edda sprechen und darüber schauen, wie sie bei euch auf die Bezahlkarten gekommen sind, Stefan lass uns, Leon, ist das schlecht Stefan, oh Gott, Lass uns doch einmal erst mal darüber sprechen, was ihr überhaupt macht und wie ihr dazu gekommen seid. Vielleicht einmal ganz kurz der Elevator Pitch für alle, die Bling nicht kennen. Ja, ja, sehr gerne. Also Bling ist eine Taschengeldkarte für Kinder und Jugendliche zwischen 7 und 17 Jahre. Damit sind wir sozusagen 2022 mit an den Markt gegangen. Die Company selbst wurde von Nils und Nil gegründet in 20 21. Wir sind mit der Vision rangegangen zu sagen, hey, in der Schule lernt man eigentlich, lernt den Satz des Pythagoras, man lernt Gedichte zu interpretieren, aber man lernt überhaupt nicht den Umgang mit Geld und wir wollen gerne eine Lösung für Kinder und Jugendliche schaffen, haben da eine Marktlücke gesehen, sind da entsprechend in den Bereich reingegangen, haben die Taschengeldlösung selbst geschaffen, bauen da sozusagen auf 'ner kompletten Bankinginfrastruktur auf und haben dann nach und nach eine ganze Reihe von weiteren Produkten gelauncht. Also mittlerweile machen wir Mobilfunk für für Familien. Wir machen einen Familienplaner. Man kann seinen ganzen Alltag darüber planen. Wir haben 'n Investmentprodukt am Start. Anfang Januar gehen wir sogar an die ganzen Schulen rein und launchen sozusagen Schulpayments. Also das bedeutet, wir machen die ganzen Zahlungen für die Caterer in der Schule, weil man sein Essen abholen will. Also eine ganze ganze Bandbreite, die wir da jetzt über die Jahre geschaffen haben, das macht superviel Spaß mit dem Team und mit der Zielgruppe. Ist eine Zielgruppe, die Nils und ich sehr, sehr gerne haben, für die wir gerne Produkte entwickeln und das ist Bling an dem Punkt, wo es grade steht. Man könnte natürlich jetzt noch viel tiefer eintauchen, aber das mal als kurzer Überblick. Wenn Du sagst, das ist eine Zielgruppe, die euch die euch wichtig ist, wie war denn die Entscheidung, dahin zu kommen? Weil das ja vielleicht nicht das allernaheliegendste Produkt zu sagen, wir machen hier Finance für Kinder und Jugendliche. Ja, ist 'n sehr, sehr guter Punkt. Also bei mir hat alles grundsätzlich son bisschen damals gestartet, 2011 hab ich Youtube angefangen. Das war son bisschen die zweite Generation Youtube, wenn man sich das vorstellen will. Also es gab damals eine Reihe von Kanälen, die es schon gab, aber Youtube war in Deutschland zumindest in ihren Ursprüngen. Da habe ich sozusagen angefangen, Tech Videos zu machen, hatte das dann damals bis auf 80000 Subscriber dann skaliert in 'ner gewissen Form. Das war für 2011, 2012, 2013 relativ viel und hab leider nie den silbernen Play Button bekommen. Das war immer son Ziel, das ist die Hunderttausendergrenze. Die hab ich leider nie erreicht und hab da ganz viele Tech Videos gedreht. Und da habe ich so die Leidenschaft für den Tech Bereich im Allgemeinen einfach gefunden und bin dann IBM gejoint, war viele paar Jahre bei IBM, hab da die unterschiedlichsten Projekte gemacht, durfte dann in den USA sein, durfte in allen Ländern dieser Welt Projekte umsetzen und hab dann danach Neon gegründet, 'n App Studio, was App Entwicklung macht für für Corporate, für Mittelständler, für alles Mögliche und hab dann Niels kennengelernt. Weil Niels und das jetzt kommt die Story, Du, jetzt komme ich zu deiner Frage sozusagen zurück. Niels ist Schweizer, hat damals in der in der Schweizer Welt als Kindermoderator sehr, sehr früh gestartet und hatte da schon immer diesen Bezug zu der Zielgruppe. Ich damals über Youtube den Bezug zu der Zielgruppe in 'ner gewissen Form schon sehr stark und Nils hat dann Beratung für Schweizer Banken gemacht, ist dann auf diesen Markt aufmerksam geworden, hat dann ein Jahr für das Family Office im Europapark gearbeitet, deswegen kommt auch unsere Beziehung zum Europapark da zustande und er hat dann jemand gesucht, der das Ganze umsetzen kann und ist dann auf mich aufmerksam geworden. Nils hatte die Woche, glaube ich, 3 Wochen bevor wir uns getroffen haben, haben dann darüber gesprochen Und ich hab gesagt, das ist mega, lass uns lass uns das zusammen umsetzen. Und so ist dann die ganze Reise gestartet 2021. Du hast es am Anfang in sonem Halbsatz erwähnt, dass Du da so diese Youtube Videos gemacht hast Anfang der Zweitausendzehnerjahre. Aber vielleicht für alle da draußen zur Einordnung, wie alt warst Du da? Ich war damals 13 oder 14, als ich damit sozusagen angefangen hab. Also ich bin jetzt 28 und genau, da war ich muss ich 13, 14 in die Richtung gewesen sein, wo ich gestartet bin und konnte damit natürlich auch meine Jugend in 'ner gewissen Form finanzieren, weil es gab damals auch den Youtube Partnerstatus, auf den man sich bewerben konnte, war 1 der Ersten, der dann auf Werbung schalten konnte. Und so ist das dann damals alles gestartet und hat auch für mich meiner Meinung nach die Grundpfeiler gelegt für all das, was ich jetzt liebe und gerne mache. Da ist natürlich viel, ich will nicht sagen Glück, weil ich will ja nicht euren eure Arbeit quasi runter reden, aber vielleicht glückliche Fügung irgendwie auch dabei gewesen, ja, dass jemand eine coole App Idee hat, Du schon seit Jahren quasi App gebaut hast, ihr euch zum richtigen Zeitpunkt gefunden habt, das Interesse irgendwie schon da war für die Domäne. War das für dich schon immer so, als Du 'n App Studio aufgebaut hast, dass Du sagst, ah, ich will auch irgendwann son son richtiges eigenes Produkt und nicht nur in in Dienstleistung quasi andere Sachen entwickeln oder war das mehr so, da hat sich die Gelegenheit ergeben und ihr habt das genutzt? Gab's da, hattest Du da 'n Plan? Ist vielleicht die die kurze Version dieser Frage. Ich glaube, ich bin im Leben grundsätzlich sehr opportunistisch und bin der Meinung, dass sich jedem von uns im Leben so viele Türen an an jeden an jeder Stelle öffnen. Man muss einfach nur mutig sein und und diese Wege in 'ner gewissen Form gehen und natürlich auch die Motivation haben, hart working zu sein, viele Sachen einfach weiterzuverfolgen. Für mich war, nachdem ich viele Jahre in 'ner gewissen Form das Softwarestudio gemacht habe, für viele unterschiedliche Unternehmen einfach Produkte gebaut habe und Neon ist auch heute sehr, sehr erfolgreich, hat sich für mich einfach irgendwann der Punkt ergeben, dass ich gesagt hab, ich möchte gern einfach mal den kompletten Zyklus owen. Also es bedeutet, als Dienstleister ist man eigentlich immer nur ein Rad im Wagen. Man kann super Produkt bauen, aber man ist bedingt nur für den Gesamterfolg verantwortlich ehrlicherweise und dadurch, dass man eine Product Company von 0 aufbaut, hat man ja ist ja von den 45 Personen, die jetzt bei Bling arbeiten, nur 'n Teilbereich sozusagen im Productbereich angesiedelt, aber es gibt von Customer Support über HR, über Marketing, Paid Acquisition, CRM, Finance, so viele Abteilungen, die allen gigantischen Erfolg erweitert leisten, halt das Produkt erfolgreich zu machen und das wollte ich einfach mal spüren, weil wenn man sowas entsprechend aufbauen kann, dass man auch für den Gesamterfolg sozusagen des Unternehmens oder des Produktes verantwortlich und nicht nur für einen Teilbereich und zwar den Dienstleisterbereich etwas für andere zu bauen oder zu entwickeln. Jetzt könnt ihr natürlich sehr von diesen ganzen Erfahrungen, die ihr mit Neon gemacht hattet, profitieren, als ihr blind gebaut habt, aber auch diese Erfahrungen kommen ja nicht von ungefähr. So. Und Du hast gerade gesagt, Du hast direkt nach deinem Studium und deiner Zeit bei RWM quasi gegründet. Wie waren denn da so die die Anfangsjahre? Weil so, ne, ein Dienstleister aufzumachen ist ja das eine, die Kunden zu gewinnen und das Ganze dann irgendwie groß zu machen, ist ja das das andere, das ist ja kein Selbstläufer. Ja, da hast Du natürlich vollkommen recht. Ich glaube, ich hatte mir damals, ich hab das zusammen mit Niklas Stenberg und meinem Co Founder bei Neon entsprechend gegründet und wir haben uns damals so die Frage gestellt, wie soll's weitergehen? Und wir waren selbst noch Anfang 20 gewesen zu dem Zeitpunkt, wo wir das gemacht haben und wir haben halt eben gesagt, hey, wir geben uns ein Jahr jetzt und wir verfolgen ein Jahr diese Idee, dieses App Studio entsprechend aufzubauen. Was haben wir zu verlieren? Wir haben eine Reihe von Erfahrungen, die wir gewinnen können. Wir haben relativ geringe Lebensunterhalt. Lass uns das doch zusammen angehen. Wir sind zusammen nach Berlin gezogen, haben eine eine sehr, sehr große WG gemietet sozusagen, haben unser Office sozusagen in die WG gemast, also das Büro sozusagen 5, 6 Arbeitsplätze waren aus unserer Wohnung heraus. Das war sozusagen der Weg, wie wir unser erstes Office finanziert haben und dann haben wir das Team natürlich auch in unserer Wohnung runtergebracht in 'ner gewissen Form und darüber ist das gewachsen. Und das war natürlich ganz simpel. Niklas und ich haben damals angefangen. Wir haben an einem Abend einfach zufällig entschieden, Niklas macht Frontend Entwicklung, ich mach Backend Entwicklung und das war so der Zufall und seitdem ist es so geblieben und dann hat sich das Ganze näher und selbstfinanziert natürlich aufgebaut, ist dann auf entsprechend auf über 20 Mitarbeiter gewachsen und dann sehr, sehr groß geworden und ja, das war das waren so bisschen die Anfänge und das erste Jahr hat sehr gut geklappt und haben gesagt, lass es uns noch 'n weiteres Jahr machen Und so hat sich das in 'ner gewissen Form einfach entwickelt. Und man hatte natürlich den Vorteil, dass man nicht verschuldet ist, jetzt keine keine keine erweiterte, noch keine Kinder zum Beispiel hat, keine Frau, sondern man hat gesagt, ganzes Leben war und ist halt in 'ner gewissen Form diese Arbeit und deswegen kann man da auch alles reingeben und dann kann man dafür natürlich auch leben und das Ganze auch dann entsprechend wachsen lassen. Also der Vorteil der jungen Jahre hat da einfach sehr, sehr stark geholfen. Jetzt ist ja aber Neon in der Zeit gegründet, wo jetzt vielleicht die initiale Goldgräberstimmung in dem App Store schon vorbei war und nicht mehr jeder einfach nur irgendwie eine App haben wollte, sondern der Markt ja schon son bisschen gesättigter war vielleicht auch, ja. Was waren das für Kunden und wie klein oder groß waren denn da so die Projekte, mit denen ihr da angefangen habt? Ja, das ist eine, wir haben uns halt damals sehr stark, wir haben, als wir angefangen haben, haben wir gesagt, wir probieren alle Technologien aus. Also das bedeutet, wir haben uns damals mit Erkundung 4 Monate Zeit genommen und haben alle Technologien. Wir haben reg Native, alle alles Mögliche, View, React, Ragnative. Wir haben wir haben Go ausprobiert, NoGS, alles Mögliche sind wir durchgegangen und dann haben wir uns entschieden, okay, wir gehen in die Nische der Flatter App Entwicklung und ihr seid ja auch große Flatter Fans, wenn ich das Richtige in Erinnerung habe. Ich hab euch vorhin schon mal erwähnt von 20 19. In der Anfangszeit von Neon war der programmierbar Podcast 'n großer Begleiter von mir. Also meine meinen Start in die Selbstständigkeit habt ihr mit begleitet in 'ner gewissen Form. Wir haben uns natürlich sehr stark auf die Nische der Flatterentwicklung spezialisiert und dadurch, dass Flatterentwicklung in der Zeit sehr groß geworden ist, das waren meiner Meinung nach so mit die besten Jahre von Flatter, also es ist sehr stark angestiegen, 2 19, 2 20 ist die Technologie groß geworden und wir waren halt eben mit dabei und deswegen haben wir für viele große Corporates, wenn die neue Küchengeräte rausbringen und es wird eine Rezepte App benötigt, dann bekommen wir den Prototypen, wir entwickeln die Rezepte App dafür. Wenn eine News Verlage zum Beispiel sagen, hey, wir haben eine News App, wir möchten gerne eine White Label News App haben, das auf unsere 50 Zeitungen zu übertragen, dann bauen wir sozusagen die die die White Label App dafür entsprechend und das waren son bisschen die Projekte. Da haben wir die ersten Kunden an Land gezogen. Der Vorteil war aber ganz klar, dass wir gesagt haben, wir machen nur Flatter App Entwicklung und natürlich Backend Entwicklung, aber wir spezialisieren uns ausschließlich auf auf Flatter. Mittlerweile machen wir auch mehr Technologien, aber das war natürlich unser Vorteil, den wir damals hatten, dass wir an diese Technologie so stark geglaubt haben. Wie wurde das bei euren Kunden aufgenommen? Weil so in im Nachgang lässt sich natürlich immer einfach sagen, ja, da habt ihr aufs richtige Pferd gesetzt so, ja. Aber Du hast selber gesagt, da war Flatter noch relativ jung, da hat sich viel auch getan, ja. Musste man da Überzeugungsarbeit leisten, jemandem zu erklären, dass, ja, dieses Multiplattform Framework aus der Pause Google mit 1 Codebasis irgendwie alle Plattformen zu versorgen. Das ist zwar noch recht jung, aber das wird schon irgendwie funktionieren. Oder hat sich das verkauft wie geschnitten Brot, weil die Leute nur gehört haben, boah, ich muss nur einmal eine Entwicklung bezahlen und ich kann überall irgendwie meine Apps haben. Ja, wir haben halt damals so so reingestartet, dass sie halt eben gesagt haben, wir definieren bestimmte Milestones und ihr müsst uns keinen Euro vorab bezahlen. Also das bedeutet, wir gehen komplett in den Invest rein. Ihr bezahlt uns, wenn wir das, was wir versprochen haben, abgeliefert haben. Ihr seid damit zufrieden, dann findet erst die Bezahlung statt. Und das ist natürlich in dem Geschäft, in dem wir unterwegs sind, komplett unüblich. Also das ist normal, dass man 30, 50 Prozent vorher anzahlt, ist komplett üblich und ich glaube, da haben einfach die entsprechenden Entscheider an uns geglaubt und gesagt, wir haben ja nichts zu verlieren, lass uns das mit denen ausprobieren und wir müssen ja erst zahlen, wenn wir zufrieden sind. Und das ist natürlich komplett unüblich. Das funktioniert halt eben, wenn man noch sehr klein ist und umso größer man ist, hat man natürlich bestimmte Liquiditätspieaks, die man versucht, natürlich monatlich dann auszugleichen und zu schaut, dass man bestimmte Retainer reinbekommt, damit man halt eben diese starken Schwankungen nicht mehr hat. Aber das war natürlich 1 unserer größten Vorteile damals, dass wir so in den Markt reingegangen sind. Wir haben immer viel mit Stack Overflow argumentiert und gesagt haben, schaut euch mal an, wie die bei Stack Overflow am am sind. Auch in den jährlichen Reports sozusagen ist ja Flatter immer größer geworden. Es war insgesamt ist Flatter viel, viel günstiger zu entwickeln, als wenn ich Android und iOS entwickle. Ich hab die doppelten Bugs potenziell. Ich brauch die doppelte Zahl in Entwicklern. Ich brauch viel mehr Produktmanagement und so weiter und so fort. Das sind natürlich von Cross Plattformen, ja, ist man da natürlich sehr sehr stark finanziell im Vorteil und natürlich, wie wir auch damals die Abwicklung gemacht haben, war das natürlich unser unser Weg in in die jeweiligen Unternehmen rein. Aber es war schon so, dass das in der Diskussion eine Rolle gespielt hat oder war die Technologieentscheidung da komplett euch überlassen und die Kunden haben gesagt, so hör mal, ich will hier diese News App und ob ihr die mit diesem Flatter oder oder Swift oder irgendwas anderes baut, ist mir eigentlich komplett egal. Hauptsache, die steht am Ende für den richtigen Preis. Ja, ich glaub, es ging vielen einfach da drum, dass wir sehr stark dieses White Label Produkt dann zum Beispiel bei den News Apps verkauft haben und wir haben natürlich dann auch in dem Zusammenhang die komplette CACD Pipeline mit verkauft. Das bedeutet, dass Du wirklich diese die Single Coobase hast und sozusagen und automatisiert in die jeweiligen App Store Accounts die App Updates ausrollen kannst auf 50 Apps verteilt und alles, was damit zusammentun. Und dann hat das Gesamtsystem, was wir uns überlegt haben, einfach Sinn gemacht, weil es so viel günstiger war als die Bestandslösungen entsprechend und so viel moderner, dass wir halt eben mit diesem Gesamtpaket einfach überzeugen konnten. Du hast auch gesagt, ihr habt euch, bevor ihr bei Flatter angekommen seid, super viele andere Sachen angeguckt. Und das ist ja eigentlich für einen CTO 'n sehr wichtiges Skillset. So, einmal die komplette Breite an irgendwie Technologien sich anschauen zu können und dann aber auch sehr genau und zeitnah entscheiden zu können, okay, worauf setzen wir denn jetzt hier und und warum. Wie war da so die die Lernkurve für dich? Weil ich mein, natürlich hast Du im Studium auch schon viel gesehen und bei RBM bestimmt auch, ja, aber trotzdem ist das ja vielleicht dann noch mal was anderes, weil man das erste Mal in eigener Verantwortung da ist, vor einem Haufen neuer Technologien steht, die vielleicht auch alle noch nicht so sind, ja. Und dann jetzt aber auf einmal entscheiden muss so, welches nehmen wir denn? So, wie hast Du dich unabhängig von der Entscheidung, die ihr jetzt zu flatter getroffen habt, aber wie bist Du da so methodisch vorgegangen? Ich glaub, das mache ich heute immer noch so. Wir suchen immer die Sache, die es am schwierigsten umzusetzen ist. Also es bedeutet, man baut 'n neues Produkt und sagt, was ist der Teil, der Teilbereich, der superschwierig ist umzusetzen? Was ist dieser Schlüsselpunkt, wo ich nicht weiß, das könnte einen Tag dauern, aber es könnte auch 3 Monate dauern. Was ist dieser Punkt? Und diesen Punkt sozusagen nur diesen kleinen Spezifipip Punkt MVP Style mit unterschiedlichen Frameworks, mit unterschiedlichen Technologien umsetzen und schauen, bekomme ich das damit abgebildet? Funktioniert das so, wie ich mir das vorstelle? Und wenn es klappt, dann ist das für mich immer son bisschen das Zeichen, okay, das können wir wirklich einsetzen. Also wirklich nach den extremen Edge Cases suchen und zu sagen, was ich nicht mag, ist, wenn plötzlich Überraschungen kommen und deswegen versuch ich halt eben die Edge Cases vorher zu suchen und da waren sozusagen die Technologie zu messen. Weißt Du dann, was das war damals, flotter zu validieren? Ich glaub, das waren damals an die Plattformchannels zum Beispiel zu schauen, okay, bekomme ich wirklich auch alles in 'ner gewissen Form nativ eingebunden, was ich möchte und so weiter und so fort. Und auch heute bei Bling setzen wir, wir haben ja bei uns bei Bling nicht nur unsere App in Flatter, sondern auch unser komplett komplettes Backoffice Tooling. Also man muss sich vorstellen, dadurch, dass wir die Services anbieten, müssen ja Karten gesperrt werden. Wir müssen KOSCs machen, also Nutzerverifizierung, Transaktionen, Fraud, alles Mögliche, die ganze Bandbreite. Auch das haben wir als macOS Applikationen zum Beispiel nativ bei uns gebaut. Also wir sind da sehr tief im Stack drin und bis heute hab ich für uns keinen Use Case gefunden, den wir nicht irgendwie mit Flatter gelöst bekommen haben und deswegen sind wir auch superhappy auch heute noch mit der Technologie. Weil Du jetzt gerade diesen flüssigen Übergang inzwischen hast, nur, sagen wir mal kurz, einzuordnen. Also das heißt, Du hast noch was mit Neon zu tun aktuell und Neon hat aber auch irgendwas mit Bling zu tun? Es ist so, dass wir mit Neon damals den die erste Version von von Blinks sozusagen angeschoben haben in 'ner gewissen Form. Also das bedeutet, wir hatten ja das Developerteam und konnten da natürlich sagen, okay, wir bauen damit entsprechend die erste Version. Das war son bisschen unser Ziel und Neon selbst. Sowohl Niklas und ich sind natürlich in Bling involviert und das bedeutet, die sind relativ nah, die Unternehmen, aber es sind eigentlich komplett getrennte Unternehmen. Also es bedeutet, manchmal haben wir Projekte, zum Beispiel launchen wir jetzt grade entsprechend Bling for Schools, also unsere Blingmensa Lösung und jetzt ist Dezember, es soll im Januar live gehen. Wir brauchen noch zusätzliche Entwickler, dann haben wir natürlich zusätzliche Entwickler von Neon noch an Bord, die jetzt grade in der finalen Phase unterstützen, aber sonst ist es getrennt. Neon lebt und lebt im alten Office von Beling und Beling ist 'n neues Office umgezogen, aber an sich sind es getrennte Unternehmen, die aber natürlich durch mich in 'ner gewissen Form miteinander verbunden sind. Auch wenn ich operativ sozusagen bei Neon nicht mehr involviert bin und super-, superhappy bin, dass Nicklas das so extrem gut bei Neon alles managt. Dann versuchen wir noch mal, diesen Übergang mitzunehmen. Ich glaube, es gibt in Softwareentwicklungen so 3 Königsdisziplinen. Und Dennis darf nicht beleidigt sein, wenn ich sag, dass Gaming nicht dazugehört. Und zwar geht es da wie kritisch Software ist. So und die die unterste Stufe ist für mich immer so alles, was mit Logistik zu tun hat oder Fertigung. So, da da passiert was in der realen Welt. So, wenn Du Software baust, da wird 'n Paket verschickt, da bewegt sich 'n Roboter und macht was auf der Fertigungsstraße, keine Ahnung. Der Zweite, und da kommen wir nämlich jetzt hier zu Leon, ist immer wenn's Geld geht. Das ist alles, was was mit Fintech, mit Finanzprodukten und so weiter zu tun hat. Und da hab ich immer son gewissen Respekt vorgehabt, ja. Wie war das für dich, Leo? Du hast Ach, schon, Moment, Du hast von 3 Stufen schon, oder? Ja, die letzte Gaming ganz oben nach. Ja, die Dritte ist natürlich Gaming, oder? Also ich Die Dritte ist natürlich Gaming, wenn man unter Gaming versteht, alles, was so im medizinischen Bereich ist, wo's vielleicht so Leben und Tod geht, ja. Wenn Du Firmware fürn Herzschrittmacher baust oder so was, das ist vielleicht auch ganz relevant. Aber das ist dann, glaub ich, noch mal eine ganz andere Kategorie. Aber also trotzdem, meine Frage war, Du hast eben schon erzählt, wie ihr son bisschen auf die Idee gekommen seid, aber trotzdem stell ich mir das als Entwickler schon noch mal als sonen größeren Sprung vor zu sagen, na ja, jetzt übernehm ich hier mit meiner Software Verantwortung für für Geld und Finanzplanung von anderen Menschen, die da auf mich angewiesen sind. War das Teil deiner Reflexion oder habt ihr einfach gesagt, oh, ist 'n geiles Produkt, da haben wir Lust drauf, das machen wir, das wird schon irgendwie funktionieren? Ich glaub, es war von Anfang an, glaub ich, eine eine superschöne Herausforderung. Es macht unfassbar viel Spaß, damit zu arbeiten, einfach aus dem Grund, dass man auch sieht, dass sie in jeder Sekunde gerade Zahlungen stattfinden. Also das Ich find das 'n total verrücktes Gefühl persönlich, dass an jedem Ort dieser Welt man es eigentlich gerade ermöglicht, dass Kinder, Jugendliche, aber auch Erwachsene sozusagen überall auf dieser Welt grade bezahlen können. Natürlich macht man sich da einfach noch mal viel, viel stärker Gedanken dadrum, wie man bestimmte Services aufsplittet, wie man die vielleicht auf unterschiedliche AWS Regionen verteilt und so weiter und so fort. Da ist man natürlich schon schon schon macht man sich sehr, sehr viele Gedanken da dran, aber es ist schon ehrlicherweise alles lösbar und sehr gut lösbar meiner Meinung nach und ich ich liebe diese Herausforderung. Ihr habt, oder vielleicht eine, fangen wir alles drauf an. Du hast grad gesagt, ihr habt zusammen mit Neon dann quasi Bling angeschoben. Was war so der erste MVP, den ihr zur Tür rausgeschickt habt und wie habt ihr euch auf den geeinigt? Das Thema ist natürlich, dass Du ja gleichzeitig, während Du die Entwicklung machst, in 'ner gewissen Form hast Du ja auch reguläre Themen, die sozusagen gleichzeitig losstarten. Also es bedeutet, Du hast ja bestimmte Prozesse, die Du implementieren musst und Du hast natürlich regulatorische Anforderungen zum Beispiel, die Du auch erfüllen musst. Und bei uns war dann am eher am Ende das Thema sozusagen, dass der regulatorische Prozess länger gedauert hat als der Entwicklungsprozess des MBPs in 'ner gewissen Form, was bedeutet, dass wir sozusagen schon mit 'nem sehr guten Funktionsumfang am Ende einfach live gehen konnten. Wir haben uns natürlich sehr stark auf das Taschengeld fokussiert. Mobilfunk und alles andere, was wir im Portfolio haben, gab es damals noch nicht. Wir hatten schon Gedanken dazu, aber es waren natürlich noch ganz, ganz weit in der Zukunft. Aber natürlich konnte man bei uns die kompletten Kernprozesse abbilden, also die Karte bestellen, damit bezahlen, Limits einstellen, Sparbereich, auf unterschiedliche in in unterschiedlichen Sparbereichen Sparzielen, das Ganze anlegen und so weiter und so fort. Das gab es natürlich damals alles schon, aber bei uns war's dann am Ende der regulatorische Prozess, der sozusagen ein, 2 Monate länger gedauert hat und der der School live in 'ner gewissen Form bestimmt hat. Das ist natürlich bei euch zum Beispiel ganz anders. Wenn ihr eine App live bringt, dann seid ihr euer eigenes Hindernis, euer eigener Blocker in 'ner gewissen Form. Das bedeutet, ihr könnt sagen, wir bringen das raus und dann bringt ihr das raus. Und die App Entwicklung zum Beispiel im Gaming Bereich macht superviel Spaß, einfach aus dem Grund, dass man ein Team loslassen kann und das Team, den wir wahrscheinlich auf dem Weg, auf so wie ihr strukturiert seid wahrscheinlich, sehr wenige Blocker auf dem Weg auf den Weg kommen. Also das Team entwickelt und entwickelt, hat gewisse Freiheiten in den Frameworks, die ihr natürlich habt. Bei uns haben wir natürlich immer wieder liege- und Compliance Themen auf auf der Strecke. Wir haben Partner, mit denen wir bestimmte Sachen abstimmen müssen. Es ist teilweise noch eine sehr alte Industrie sozusagen, bestimmte Sachen lassen sich auf nur auf Umwege technisch lösen, weil die Schnittstellen nicht da sind und so weiter und so fort. Das bedeutet, mein Ziel ist es immer zu schauen, dass ich die Teams entblockiere. Ich bin in 'ner gewissen Form dafür da, dass es keine Blocker oder möglichst wenige Blocker auf der Strecke gibt und dass die Teams möglichst gut arbeiten können. Das bedeutet, oft sind es die Themen außen rum, die dann einen Launch zum Beispiel verschieben und weniger die eigentliche Entwicklungsleistung. Jetzt habt ihr ja aber wahrscheinlich auch das Rad nicht komplett neu erfunden, weil ihr seid ja keine eigene Bank. Ich nehm an, ihr habt da 'n Dienstleister für, ja, der sich so was wie Kartenausgabe, Kontoführung und so weiter kümmert, mit dem ihr dann da zusammenarbeitet. Wie viel musstet ihr trotzdem an diesen ganzen Prozessen neu schaffen? Du hast eben grade schon son paar genannt, ne, aber auch einfach so was wie Kontoerstellungen, Karten ausgeben, Konto sperren lassen, bla. Also das sind ja alles Sachen, die, ich sag mal, die die im im im Finanzgeschäft eigentlich so sind, ja, aber die ja jeder für sich irgendwie doch wieder neu entwickeln muss wahrscheinlich. Oder konntet ihr euch wirklich so voll und ganz auf die Featureentwicklung konzentrieren, wie hier Sparfunktion und so weiter, weil der ganze finanzielle Teil doch wirklich komplett schon abgedeckt ist mit bestehenden Backoffistools oder so was. Mhm. Also zum Start haben wir stärker sozusagen, also wir sind bei, die Bankkonten bei uns sozusagen liegen bei der Socity General. Also bedeutet, ist eine ist eine sehr, sehr 1 der größten französischen Banken, die die es gibt. Und da liegt sozusagen das Geld, wenn man sich das in der Form vorstellen will. Das bedeutet, wir sind grundsätzlich französisch und deutsch reguliert in 'ner gewissen Form. Mit Europa sozusagen ist das möglich und genau, wir haben in Deutschland keine eigene Bankenlizenz, sondern die SourSu d'Aéqé de General hat sozusagen die Bankenlizenz entsprechend in Frankreich und ihre Sub Company, mit der arbeiten wir entsprechend zusammen. Am Anfang ist es so, dass wir große Teile oder so viel wie möglich versucht haben auszulagern. Mittlerweile ist es so, dass wir mehr und mehr Prozesse bei uns inkludieren. Also es bedeutet, dass wir zum Beispiel 'n Großteil von den Themen mittlerweile auch auf unserer Seite entsprechend abwickeln und tun, weil wir einfach gemerkt haben, dass wir damit versuchen, die externen Abhängigkeit in 'ner gewissen Form zu reduzieren. Das bedeutet, dass wir bestimmte Partner einbinden und so weiter und so fort, wenn das für uns möglich ist und direkt mit denen zusammenarbeiten, weil uns es einfach mehr Freiheiten gibt und halt eben diese Blocker in 'ner gewissen Form entsprechend removed. Wir sind da natürlich unseren französischen Partnern sehr, sehr dankbar und das klappt auch klappt auch super, aber natürlich ist es so, dass wir versuchen mehr und mehr Prozesse, wo man am Anfang sehr, sehr stark Sachen ausgelagert hat, versucht man die halt über die Jahre viel stärker zu sich zu bringen und die Wertschöpfung auch von den tiefergehenden Banking Prozessen halt eben bei sich entsprechend zu haben. Also das bedeutet, wenn heute zum Beispiel eine Kartentransaktion stattfindet, dann entscheiden wir zum Beispiel innerhalb von einhundert Millisekunden, ob die Kartentransaktion durchgeht oder nicht durchgeht zum Beispiel. Das sind zum Beispiel so Prozesse, die waren früher beim Start von Bingen waren die bei unserem Partner. Mittlerweile sind diese Prozesse bei uns. Also es bedeutet, ja, bei uns kommt der API Request rein, wir machen unsere Logiken und entscheiden dann, okay, wir lassen das durch oder wir lassen die Kartentransaktion halt eben nicht durch, wenn eine Person grade am Terminal steht und ganz dringend bezahlen will. Das heißt, ich ich muss mir das so vorstellen, dass diese ganzen Features wie jetzt eine Prüfung von den Transaktionen oder weiß ich nicht, Sperrung von der Karte, das kann ich als Dienstleistung bei meinem Partner buchen oder ich kann es selbst implementieren und ihr seid dann quasi im Laufe der Zeit immer mehr von dem einen Spektrum zum anderen gewandert? Genau, richtig. Also wir haben immer stärker gesagt, dass wir die Sachen gerne bei uns haben möchten, weil wir da natürlich auch eine höhere Flexibilität haben und die Abhängigkeiten reduzieren. Dass wir versuchen, da, wo wir die Abhängigkeiten brauchen, haben wir sie und da, wo wir sie nicht zwingend brauchen, versuchen wir halt das entsprechend bei uns zu lösen. Darfst Du den Hauptgrund nennen, warum ihr euch für die Society General entschieden habt? Es gibt gar nicht so viele Player, die das die das ehrlicherweise machen. Das bedeutet, es gibt Swan zum Beispiel noch, die das in Frankreich zum Beispiel machen. Es gibt die Solaris Bank in Deutschland, die das entsprechend noch macht und es gibt noch ein, 2 andere, die das machen. Für uns war damals die Entscheidung gewesen, dass für uns die Treasor, das ist der Partner, den wir haben, die Sub Company sozusagen von der SoCity General, auf unseren Use Case und unsere Anforderungen am eingehen konnte. Also da ist das höchste Maß an und auch eigenen Projekten, die man bei dem Partner aufmachen kann. Also das bedeutet, wir können 'n Projekt bei der Partner öffnen und dann findet auf der Seite auch Custom Implementierung für uns entsprechend statt. Das ist da halt eben komplett möglich und bei den anderen Anbietern ist es halt eben einfach so, dass da teilweise unflexibler das Pricing sehr, sehr teuer ist, dass es schwierig ist, da 'n profitables Geschäftsmodell drauf aufzubauen und manche natürlich auch sehr stark extern finanziert sind. Und das ist natürlich bei 'nem Partner wie der Socity General ist das einen jahrhunderteralter Partner, der der sehr sehr stabil ist und auch nicht auf externe Finanzierungsrunden angewiesen ist. Das waren son bisschen die Gründe, warum wir uns damals dafür entschieden haben. Du sprichst da 'n coolen Punkt an, die die Fremdfinanzierung und oder das Vertrauen, den man da in sonen Partner haben muss. Euch geht es ja im Prinzip vis-à-vis euren Kunden nicht anders, ne. Also ihr seid ein neuer Player oder ein junger Player, sagen wir mal, vielleicht so an dem Markt. Und wenn jetzt die Eltern da draußen überlegen, ob sie dem Kind, weiß nicht, die erste Bezahlkarte bei der heimischen Sparkasse oder so was einrichten oder eben bei euch, seid ihr bestimmt, was das Featuret angeht, da deutlich attraktiver, aber eben noch nicht so etabliert. Wie war das für euch insbesondere am Anfang, die ersten Kunden von euch dem Konzept und der App zu überzeugen, ohne einen Track Record zu haben im Prinzip? Ist eine sehr gute Frage. Es hat, also wenn ich mir die Wachstumszahlen anschaue von damals, ist das eine, der hat mir natürlich son bisschen so Warteliste, von der haben wir nach dem Launch in 'ner gewissen Formsidee gewachsen und dann hat es sich sehr stark selbst verbreitet, weil es halt eben insgesamt nur sehr wenige oder in Deutschland gibt es aktuell kein zweites Spling in dieser Form, was was das abbilden kann. Das bedeutet, das ist auch unser großer Vorteil, dass es keinen weiteren Player gibt. Ich kann natürlich ganz normal zu den klassischen Banken und das öffnen. Ich muss vor Ort hingehen, muss mit beiden meinen Eltern teilen dahin, das da zu öffnen. Dann habe ich möglicherweise gar keine habe ich möglicherweise gar keine Visa oder Mastercard entsprechend, sondern nur eine EC Karte, kann die nicht online einsetzen und so weiter und so fort. Ist natürlich son bisschen abhängig von Bank zu Bank, aber das war ein Angebot, wo wir gemerkt haben, dass der Product Market fit super da ist. Also das war wirklich 'n Thema gewesen, wenn man son bisschen Start ups hat und hat das Gefühl, okay, findet man den Product Market fit, funktioniert Man ist einfach in eine Zielgruppe reingestoßen, direkt am Anfang von Leuten, die genau nach so was gesucht haben. Digitales Banking für für für Kinder und Jugendliche, für die Familie, das eben alles vereinen zu können. Das möglichst einfach in Echtzeit aufladen, mit der Man kann mit der eigenen Kreditkarte in Echtzeit aufladen. Man kann das Geld hin- und her transferieren innerhalb der Familie. Man kann das Taschengeld planen. Man hat den Sparbereich. Man hat all diese ganzen Funktionen und wir sind ja ein bezahltes Produkt, also es gibt ja kein kostenloses Blining in 'ner gewissen Form, dass wir einfach gemerkt haben, dass der Product Marketit da ist und dass die Leute einfach Lust da drauf haben, das halt eben zu nutzen. Des Weiteren ist es ja so, dass wir allgemein mit den Kundengeldern in 'ner gewissen Form wie das jetzt eine Bank macht, die das irgendwo anliegt oder investiert. Es ist ja bei uns so, dass wir das Geld, was die Kunden entsprechend einzahlen, ist auch zu jeder Zeit da. Also es ist ja nicht in irgend 'ner Form, wie es vielleicht im normalen BR Bankengeschäft halt nötig ist, indem Kredite ausgegeben werden und so weiter und so fort, man halt die mit dem mit den Kundengeldern arbeitet, wird ja bei Bling nicht mit den Kundengeldern gearbeitet. Also das bedeutet, wenn ich 100 Euro überweise, dann sind die 100 Euro zu jedem Zeitpunkt immer entsprechend natürlich da. Das ist natürlich auch noch mal 'n großer Unterschied. Das bedeutet, die Sorge, dass sollte irgendetwas passieren, die gibt das halt sozusagen in der Form gar nicht. Das heißt, im Umkehrschluss aber auch, dass euer einziger Revenuestream die monatliche Gebühr für die Konten ist, weil eben nicht mit dem Geld arbeitet? Ja, genau. Also es ist natürlich, es ist eine ganze das allgemein das Modell ist der Großteil sozusagen der Gebühren, die wir bekommen, ist zum Beispiel durch die Mobilfunkpläne, die wir haben, durch die Taschengeldprodukte, also die was Kunden aktiv für die Nutzung der Services in der Form natürlich zahlen. Sonst gibt es natürlich noch ganz viele andere Gebührenstrukturen, zum Beispiel Mastercard und Visa, vielleicht kennt ihr das selbst, haben gewisse Händlergebühren, dann gibt es 'n bestimmten Interchange, den man in 'ner gewissen Form zurück Stimmt, ja. Erstattet bekommt vom Zahlungsvolumen und so weiter und so fort. Das bedeutet insgesamt, es ist 'n sehr komplexes Kostenmodell, aber auch die Einnahmen sozusagen splitten sich auf relativ viele Streams auf. Es ist aber so, dass die die Gebühren oder die die Subscription Fees, die wir entsprechend erfassen, das natürlich den Großteil unseres Umsatzes ausmacht. Jetzt hast Du ja grade schon angesprochen, was ihr alles neben der Bezahlkarte noch macht mit Mobilfunk, mit Sparanlage, Nachhilfe hab ich gesehen, gibt's auch so, ja. Wie schaut ihr euch das an und wie überlegt ihr euch so, also wann wann strecken wir uns vielleicht auch 'n bisschen zu dünn oder zu sehr? Weil das ja schon son sehr diverses Portfolio, was ihr da versucht abzudecken, ja. Wenn ich jetzt überlege, ihr ihr ihr kommt aus dem klassischen App bauen und jetzt seid ihr in 1 vielleicht für euch erst mal sehr fremden Domäne und sobald ihr euch da anfangt wohlzufühlen, streckt ihr euch da immer weiter. Wie wie trefft ihr da so Entscheidungen, was ihr macht und was ihr nicht macht? Das ist 'n sehr, sehr guter Punkt. Was wir natürlich machen, ist, dass wir sagen, Familien haben eine ganze Reihe von Problemen und wir versuchen Lösungen für die Probleme von Familien. Ich kann euch, glaub ich, so unterschreiben. So, das ist das, was wir in 'ner gewissen Form versuchen und das ist unser Ziel. Wir bauen Lösungen für Familien, für die Probleme der Familien und das ist natürlich eine ganze Bandbreite von Produkten und da hat man natürlich in 'ner gewissen Form Die Wir haben natürlich ganz klar die Super App Strategie, die in in der Form natürlich da ist und wie treffen wir da Entscheidungen? Also wir schauen uns an, okay, was sind neue Bereiche? Was kann für uns spannend sein? Wir haben uns natürlich jetzt zum Beispiel den Bereich des der der Schulmensa zum Beispiel ausgesucht und haben halt eben festgestellt, da sind sehr klassische traditionelle Player in dem Bereich. Die Kunden, wenn man sich die App Store Bewertungen der jeweiligen Player an dem Markt anschaut, sind sehr, sehr schlecht. Also die Eltern sind sehr unzufrieden mit dem Produkt. Gleichzeitig wissen wir, dass wir eine Bankinginfrastruktur haben, die die Grundlagen für son System stellen kann, also mit dem Auszahlen der Caterer, mit dem Einzahlen der Eltern, mit dem Bezahlen der Essen und denken, okay, das ist 'n Bereich, der spannend ist mit unserer Kompetenz und unserem Wissen, was wir über die letzten Jahre erlangt haben. Können wir da eine gute Lösung für Familien entsprechend schaffen? Und dann sagen, dann geben wir das natürlich innerhalb des Teams. Das Financeteam rechnet das aus. Productmanagement kommt dazu, was bei uns sehr, sehr technisch ist. Nils und ich machen uns unsere Gedankenmarketing, alle Abteilungen kommen zusammen. Dann überlegen wir uns, okay, macht das Sinn? Und dann entwickeln wir halt eben eine Strategie und versuchen dann son Speed Boot losstarten zu lassen, da halt 'n ersten NVP zu entwickeln. Das bedeutet, wir verkaufen das Produkt erst mal, schauen, sind Schulen überhaupt an unserem Produkt interessiert? Dann entwickeln wir das parallel entsprechend mit 'nem kleinen Speed Boot, was ausgelagert ist. Das muss nicht an unseren normalen Dailys teilnehmen. Das muss nicht in die normalen Produktprozesse rein. Das ist son bisschen Start-up im Start-up und das baut dann entsprechend das Produkt. Dann bringen wir das an einen gewissen Punkt. Und zu jeder Zeit könnten wir auch sagen, okay, das macht vielleicht doch keinen Sinn mehr. Wir stoppen das jetzt an der Stelle. Aber wir sind für uns als Bling ist es immer wichtig, dass wir das bestehende Produkt verbessern, aber nicht in son Maintenance Mode verfallen, sondern immer wieder neue Sachen schaffen, uns neue Sachen überlegen und schauen, wo können wir irgendwie 'n Value Ad für Familien liefern. Dieser Speedboard Ansatz, wie Du gerade beschrieben hast, ist ja ganz interessant. Wie macht ihr das staffing mäßig? Also wenn ihr jetzt son neues Feld quasi identifiziert habt und sagt, okay, da da wollen wir mal was was bauen, uns was angucken, 'n kleinen MVP zurechtschustern, Wildert ihr dann in den bestehenden Productteams und sagt, okay, wir brauchen mal hier 'n Designer, wir brauchen hier 'n Entwickler, wir brauchen hier jemanden, der uns eine Datenbank zusammenschrauben kann. Stellt ihr da neue Leute für ein? Wie wie passiert das? Insgesamt bei Bling ist es so, dass in 'nem Productteam bei uns sind 16 Personen. Wir haben es aktuell Sorry, in in einem Productteam oder Nee, also im Produktteam. Genau und jetzt kommt das Ding, unser Productteam sind 16 Personen und jetzt kommt, glaub ich, das Spannende, dass wir nicht diesen Split haben, vielleicht wie andere in Domain, wo es heißt, okay, die Personen sind nur für Produkt x y zuständig oder die Personen sind nur für das Onboarding zuständig oder für Subscription Billing oder Payment. Bei uns ist es so, dass wir Projekte haben, die gemeinsam auf der Roadnapp geplant werden und wir stellen die Teams dynamisch für die Projekte zusammen. Also das bedeutet, es kann sein, dass Du mit anderen Teammitgliedern mal 3 Monate an dem Projekt arbeitest und danach zum Beispiel nach eineinhalb Monaten auf 'n anderes Projekt wechselt. Das bedeutet, wir haben sehr stark dieses Projektdenken. Bei uns ist es auch so, dass wir in wöchentlichen Cycles arbeiten. Wir ich versuche, ist natürlich immer sone Frage der Stage und für uns macht dieses Set-up im Moment aktuell supersinn, weil wir relativ geringen Overhead haben und damit sehr, sehr viel Output schaffen. Natürlich, wenn man jetzt 'n Unternehmen hat, wo man 200, 300, 400 Developer hat, dann hat man natürlich 'n ganz anderes. Deswegen ist es auch die Rolle des CTOs, CTOs entwickelt sich ja auch abhängig von der Stage, in der man grundsätzlich ist. Und bei uns ist es halt eben so, dass wir diese Projektteams haben, die wir zusammenstellen und bei uns haben wir jetzt eine Kombination aus internen Mitarbeitern, wie ich vorhin schon gesagt hab. Von E. ON unterstützen uns netterweise Leute und die arbeiten zusammen an dem Projekt und sind auch ihr eigenes Produktmanagement, ihr eigenes Design, ihr eigenes Frontend, ihr eigenes Backend Entwicklung. Dieses Team ist voll funktionsfähig in 'ner gewissen Form und hat halt jetzt den Vorteil, dass es aus den kompletten normalen Meetingstrukturen raus ist, halt eben komplett frei nur an diesem spezifischen Thema arbeiten zu können. Wie timet ihr denn diese Projektarbeit? Weil das, ich hab den Ansatz schon 'n paarmal gesehen und in der Praxis ist der immer auf die Schnauze gefallen, weil unterschiedliche Projekt Streams nicht gleichzeitig fertig werden und dann quasi die Besetzung für die nächsten Projekte teilweise schon frei sind, teilweise noch nicht, weil ihr Altersprojekt sich verzögert und dann Leute in son Leerlauf geraten. Schafft ihr das oder habt ihr da auch schon mal Probleme mit gehabt? Vielleicht kannst Du vorher, bevor Du die Frage antwortest, noch ganz kurz, weil Du sagtest 16 in dem Produktteam, nur ganz kurz aufsplitten, wie viele da aus welchem Bereich ungefähr sind. Mhm. Genau. Also bei uns ist es so, dass wir 2 Personen Product Management haben, einen Head of Product Tuben und Tobias, die Product Management zusammen machen. Dann haben wir eine Person im Design, dann haben wir und der Rest ist sozusagen Frontend und Backend fifty fifty Split entsprechend. Mhm. Genau und da ist dann jeweils ein Lead. Also es gibt ein Backend Lead und es gibt ein Frontend Lead entsprechend. Das ist son bisschen die Aufteilung und unser Productmanagement grundsätzlich ist sehr technisch gehalten. Also es bedeutet, unser Productmanagement ist auch in der Code Base unterwegs. Es entwickelt nichts. Also es gab es gibt keine Commits, aber die sind schon unterwegs und schauen sich bestimmte Sachen an, schauen oft durch die Commits durch und so weiter und so fort. Das ist uns einfach sehr wichtig, dass auch Datenstrukturen verstanden werden, die die Querys selbst schreiben können. Das ist son bisschen das Konzept-up. Mhm. Und dann? Genau. Frage nach dem Projekt zu Frage nach dem, wann Projekte zu Ende sind und wie man sich wieder zusammenfindet. Ja, das ist natürlich immer eine Herausforderung, weil ich glaub, ihr ihr wisst das genauso wie ich, also es verzögert sich immer etwas. Also es ist ja es ist selten möglich, egal wie gut man wie gut man plant oder wie gut man schätzt, auch wenn man jeden einbezieht. Es gibt immer wieder Verzögerung und Überraschungen. Wir lösen das so, dass wir immer eine quartalsweise Planung machen. Also das bedeutet, wir machen keine Jahresplanung klassisch, sondern wir planen immer das nächste Quartal und Ende der Woche sitzt immer sitzen die beiden Leads und das Produktmanagement zusammen. Die haben immer freitags 'n Meeting und da besprechen die die aktuelle Woche nach. Was hat gut geklappt, was hat weniger gut geklappt Und dann planen sie auch die nächste Woche. Also es bedeutet dadurch, dass wir diese Weekly Cycles haben und auch sehr dynamisch in der Priorisierung sind, ist es so, dass die das gemeinsam zusammen planen und dann möglicherweise Umstellung vornehmen. Und es ist immer so, dass wir son bisschen Projekte und on on holt haben. Also es bedeutet, es gibt Projekte, die sind komplett konzeptioniert, designt, alles fertig und wenn es jetzt Verzögerungen gibt in 'nem gewissen Projekt, zum Beispiel das Backend braucht länger, dann kann sich das Frontend einfach 'n Projekt aus den auf on on the shelf son bisschen aus dem Hochregal schnappen und kann das dann zum Beispiel umsetzen und sagen, okay, wir passen jetzt mal die Cachingstrategie in der App an oder wir verbessern die App Startzeit oder wir wollten schon immer mal x y umstellen. Wir wollen gerne das Designsystem besser abbilden. Also da gibt's ja ganz, ganz viele Ideen und Themen und dann nehmen wir uns die sozusagen aus dem Buchregal raus und deswegen gibt es diese Leerlaufphasen niemals. Also ist noch nie vorgekommen sozusagen. Genau. Und das Also die sind dann aber Also wenn wir jetzt den Frontend Timer nehmen mit dem Frontend Lead, die können dann zum Beispiel sich 2 solche Tasks irgendwie raussuchen für eine Woche oder arbeiten immer alle auf einem. Nee, es ist immer es ist immer komplett gesittet. Also es sind immer 3, 4 Product Streams sozusagen, die gleichzeitig laufen. Und das ist natürlich auch immer die größte Herausforderung, die immer passend zu entblockieren und zu schauen, dass die Ja. Das Move durchlaufen und so weiter und so fort. Aber wir haben immer 4 Streams ungefähr, die parallel sozusagen angeschoben werden und dann gibt es mal mal einem vielleicht mal 'n Hick-up und dann kann man sich off the shelf son son Projekt nehmen und das halt eben entsprechend reinschieben. Genau und die eigenen Teams haben wir auch immer Ideen, wo sie sagen, okay, hier wollen wir gerne mal das refactern oder hier wollen wir x y mal machen und dann sitzt das perfekt. Wenn man 1, 2 Tage vielleicht auf was anderes wartet, dann kann man diese Themen perfekt einfach reinschieben, die man vielleicht schon mal das letzte halbe Jahr machen wollte, die aber keine gigantische Priorität jetzt hatten. Und als Du grade Team sagtest, war das dann zum Beispiel das Frontend Team? Zum Beispiel das Frontend Team oder das Backend Team. Genau, also es ist so, Frontend Team und Backend Team geht's gemeinsam an Projekten. Die sitzen auch alle sozusagen hier auf der Wir sind ja sehr, sehr stark im Office. Die sitzen hier auch genau durch die Klarscheine hierdurch einmal auf der anderen Seite direkt alles zusammen. Okay. Und hab ich dich eben richtig verstanden, dass das Projekt mit der Mensa, was jetzt rauskommt, dass das dann komplett von 'nem externen Team gemacht wird oder unterstützen die jetzt das große dicken Teams? Nee, es ist sozusagen gemischt. Also der das ist sozusagen gemischtes Team und zum Beispiel in dem Mensa Projekt bin ich jetzt zum Beispiel auch wieder sehr stark involviert. Mhm. Genau und auch Niels ist zum Beispiel sehr stark in dem Projekt involviert. Also das machen wir wirklich projektbasiert in der Form. Das bedeutet, wir haben eine Person von von Neon, die unterstützen, die wir schon sehr, sehr gut kennen, die 300 Meter Luftlinie von uns entfernt sozusagen sind, die dann einfach herkommen können. Und Leute bei uns aus dem Team und dann arbeiten die zusammen. Wenn es halt eben mal so gewisse Peaks gibt oder viele Leute fallen aus, weil sie vielleicht krank sind und so weiter und so fort, da kann man halt eben da entsprechend ergänzen. Kommen wir von der Planung der Projekte hin zu der Implementierung. Und ich stell mir vor, dass ihr für all diese ganzen Themenbereiche, die ihr abbildet, ja nicht nur mit einem Partner für Finanzen zusammenarbeiten müsst, sondern wenn ihr, weiß nicht, Mobilfunkverträge macht, da gibt's bestimmt auch 'n Anbieter hinten dran. Wenn ihr jetzt Nachhilfe macht, dann gibt es da bestimmt auch 'n Dienst. Ich gehe nicht davon aus, dass ihr jetzt irgendwie 10000 Nachhilfelehrer eingestellt habt. Und wenn ihr an die Schulen gehen wollt, dann braucht ihr zumindest jemanden, der auch so was wie Accountmanagement im Prinzip betreibt für die für die Schulen oder die, also die Verwaltung von den Schulen zumindest. Was ist technisch gesehen euer größeres Problem? Die technische Integration und Schnittstellenanbindung von diesen ganzen Partnern oder die Abbildung in UI und GX von diesen doch sehr unterschiedlichen Prozessen? Ich glaube, es ist beides gleich an anspruchsvoll. Also wenn wir zum Beispiel schauen, das Mobilfunkprodukt zum Beispiel, da arbeiten wir mit der Telekom da weg zusammen. Das bedeutet, wir sind da in die Telekom Systeme integriert, da entsprechend die Sachen zu ermöglichen für Depot Lösungen. Zum Beispiel haben wir die BNP Pariber zum Beispiel. Also da haben wir die unterschiedlichsten Partner und manche Schnittstellen sind sehr, sehr schön und andere sind schwieriger, sag ich mal so. Aber ich glaube, sowohl die UI Übersetzung als auch die Schnittstellenanbindung. Es ist alles schon sehr, sehr gut machbar, aber ich würde jetzt nicht sagen, das eine ist schwieriger persönlicher als das andere. Ich glaub, hat alles so bisschen seine Herausforderung. Die Herausforderung ist natürlich auch immer, die Systeme richtig zu monitoren und so weiter und so fort und festzustellen, weil da gibt es möglicherweise keine klassischen Health End Punkte, die man einfach triggern kann, sondern man muss halt oder die Partner selbst haben teilweise kein eigenes Monitoring. Das bedeutet auf Ihr seid das Monitoring. Genau und deswegen haben wir halt 'n extrem großes Monitoring Set-up sozusagen und wir monitoren halt eben, also wir gehen immer davon aus, dass unser also gefühlt, also ist in der Realität noch nicht so, aber wir denken, so wie wir Themen angehen, dass unser Partner nichts monitort und deswegen monitoren wir sozusagen alles. Natürlich monitort der Partner, aber wir monitoren bei uns auf unserer Seite komplett doppelt. Das bedeutet, wenn es irgendwelche Themen gibt, Ausfälle, Probleme, Sachen, die nicht so funktionieren, wie sie sollten, die nicht unpredicted, Arpichanges, die nicht abgesprochen waren, solche Themen, dann dann wird das bei uns natürlich gibt's direkt entsprechende Alerts und wir können auf die Partner zugehen und das direkt ansprechen und lösen. Und haben auch für alles so Fallbackmodes. Also wenn etwas nicht funktioniert, dann haben wir immer einen Fallback sozusagen und auch von den App UI Screens sozusagen gibt es dann immer bestimmte Screens, die halt eben dann, sollte sollten bestimmte Teilfunktionen mal nicht gehen, dann eben einbinden. Weil man muss auch überlegen, auch in dem kompletten Payment Bereich, da gibt's ja Card Ishering, Card Aquiring, Du hast den Kartenversand, Du hast Payment Processor da sozusagen mit drin. Also Du hast da eine ganze Reihe von von von von von Dienstleistern in 'ner gewissen Form, die bestimmte Teilbereiche eben abbilden im im Finanzsektor. Du hast 'n Partner, SEPA Transaktionen zu starten. Man hat Themen wie SEPA Instant. All diese ganzen Themen müssen irgendwie abgebildet werden Und da muss man ja schauen, funktioniert jedes dieser Module auf so, wie es soll grade? Und das dieses Monitoring ist, glaub ich, der Aufwand, das Anbinden und das in UI Screens übersetzen, glaub ich, hält sich in Tanzen. Wie geht ihr bei der Partnerwahl vor? Wenn ihr euch jetzt für einen Partner entschieden habt für, so bleiben wir mal bei der Telekom, für ein Mobilfunkangebot und ihr arbeitet dann an der Integration, Wie generisch baut ihr sone Integration im Sinne von, na ja, vielleicht wollen wir das in Zukunft auch über Telefonica abwickeln oder irgendjemand anderen, ja, und sind da im Prinzip schon drauf vorbereitet? Oder seid ihr da eher auf der Seite von, das ist irgendwie und da wollen wir eher nicht rein investieren? Wir haben jetzt hier 'n Partner, mit dem sind wir glücklich und auf den bauen wir jetzt auch erst mal. Wie wie findet ihr da das richtige Verhältnis? Bei uns ist es oft so, dass wir, wie wir bestimmte Themen angehen, auch wenn wir zum Beispiel uns Refaktorings zum Beispiel anschauen, vielleicht komm ich über den Engel. Es ist normalerweise so, wenn wir sagen, okay, wir haben Teilbereiche der Codebase, wir haben Erfahrungen gesammelt und sagen, okay, wir wollen das gerne auf den neuesten Development Standard anpassen, refactern, dann ist das immer in der Kombination damit, dass wir das Feature teilweise neu designen und auch komplett neu bauen. Also das bedeutet, wir machen nie klassische Coderefektors, die auf den keinen Impact haben, sondern wir sagen zum Beispiel, okay, der Taschengeldplaner soll refactored werden. Dann wird der neu designt, es wird das komplette Nutzerfeedback eingearbeitet und der wird komplett neu gebaut. Und so gehen wir Refacturings im Allgemeinen an und jetzt sozusagen auf den Partnergeschichte reinzugehen. Wir versuchen es schon so allgemein wie möglich zu halten. Es ist aber nicht immer möglich, weil jeder Partner dann schon bestimmte Spezifika und so weiter hat, auf die man einfach eingehen muss. Und oft ist es ja auch so, dass man langjährige Verträge entsprechend abschließt. Das bedeutet, es ist jetzt nicht so zum Beispiel bei Payment Gateways bei uns, also wenn man klassische Payment Gateways hat, damit Subscription Zahlungen zu machen, die können wir von heute auf morgen kann können wir jeden Anbieter anschließen, den wir wollen. Das ist sehr, sehr generlich. Das ist 'n Partner, da hat man andere Pricing Konditionen oder andere Themen und dann sagt man, okay, den stellt man ganz einfach Bei unseren Kernpartnern, die sind aber schon sehr stark integriert, da haben wir schon Sachen abstrahiert, aber es geht immer nur bis zu 'nem gewissen Punkt. Da müsste man oder da würde man nicht schon, wenn man einen neuen Partner hätte, würde man schon Teilbereiche auf jeden Fall neu bauen. Das ist aber unser Ziel, weil wir in der Zeit auch so viel gelernt haben, dass wir wahrscheinlich sagen, damals, als wir 'n bestimmtes bestimmte Funktion entwickelt haben, würden wir's anders machen oder andere andere Sachen einfach noch mitdenken. Genau und deswegen versuchen wir, die Sachen einfach zu halten und leicht austauschbar zu machen, aber es gibt Teilbereiche, da sind Sachen viel, viel leichter austauschbar, weil wir wissen, dass wir's sehr oft machen und bei anderen halt eben weniger. Habt ihr schon mal euer Paymentpartner gewechselt? Für Payment Gateway? Ja. Ja, wir haben halt ganz viele neue Payment Gateways dazugenommen. Also wir sind damals sozusagen, sind wir sozusagen mit Stripe gestartet, hatten damals nur Kartenzahlungen. Dann haben wir sehr stark Paypal mit dazugenommen. Dann haben wir Lastschrift sozusagen dazu genommen und Aber ihr habt jetzt nicht zum Beispiel, weiß nicht, Kreditkartenbelägen schon mal von Stripe zu Pay One oder so was migriert? Na, aktuell, also es ist es gibt 'n es gibt sozusagen 'n Projekt, was was da und und holt gerade aktuell ist, ist perspektivisch werden wird das, werden die Payment Gateways sozusagen zentralisiert in 'ner gewissen Form. Super. Ja, wünsch mich mal an, wenn Du das gemacht hast. Genau, bei uns ist natürlich immer so bisschen das Thema, wir haben sozusagen von der Billing Engine, wir haben sozusagen das Subscription billigen nicht über die Subscription Engine, das Stripe, zum Beispiel gelöst. Also bedeutet, wir haben zum Beispiel Chargespiel genommen und mit Chargespiel sozusagen haben wir die Flexibilität, jedes Payment Gateway anzubinden. Das bedeutet, die Billing Logik ist bei uns nicht an das Payment Gateway gebunden. Und wir haben natürlich den großen Vorteil, dass wir ja interne Transfers machen können. Also das bedeutet, wir haben unsere erste Zahlungsmethode ist immer der Guthabenstand des Nutzers, von dem wir das Geld ja ohne irgendwelche payment Fees transferieren können. Das bedeutet, wir können das Geld direkt von aus dem aus dem blingen Guthaben des Nutzers einziehen und dann sekundär belasten wir dann eigentlich nur die unterschiedlichen payment Gateways. Also wir gehen immer über den internen Transfer und senken der als Fallback Methode haben wir dann klassische Payment Gateways, die wir entsprechend angebunden haben, die wir jetzt zukünftig zentralisieren werden. Da werden wir alle austauschen, aber der Vorteil ist, dass wir die Billing Engine gleich ist und wir haben letztes Jahr die komplette Billing Engine ausgetauscht und das war schon schmerzhaft. Also das waren viele, viele Nachtschichten, wo wir die die kompletten Billing Daten zu migrieren und die ganzen, also das war wirklich die die die Hölle, aber ich bin froh, dass wir das letztes Jahr gemacht haben, halt eben für die Zukunft besser aufgestellt zu sein. Als jemand, der auch schon mal vor der Aufgabe stand, Kreditkartenautorisierungen zu müssen, versteh ich deinen Schmerz. Wann macht ihr das bei euch? Ihr habt ja natürlich viel Inapurtources bei euch. Also oder hier müsste, hier muss ich das nicht machen, hier müsst ihr das auch nie mehr anfassen so, ja. Habt ihr das selbst implementiert bei euch oder habt ihr das über Revenue Cat zum Beispiel gelöst? Also über Anbieter in vergleichbar? Nee, wir also wir brauchen in dem Sinne gar nichts. Moment. Wir lassen's über den App Store und den Store laufen. Ist das denn Ja, genau, genau. Bei Innerfälge ist das sozusagen. Ja. Ich wollte nur Aber da haben wir nicht noch mal, nee, wir haben da kein direkt, das ist ja, nicht so Okay. Noch mal als Anbieter dazwischen, sondern einfach direkt mit der Anbindung. Okay. Ja, macht ihr auch, also bei eurem Volumen sozusagen macht das, ist das wahrscheinlich auch die einzig sinnvolle Lösung entsprechend, genau. Ja. Ja. Ja und wahrscheinlich auch vor allen Dingen bei der Historie. Also ich kann mir vorstellen, dass jemand Dates heute anfängt, wo's eben so Player wie Revenue Cat und so was gibt. Ist das vielleicht eine reellere Option? Wohingegen zu, wenn man jetzt hier 15 Jahre Historie mitnimmt. Ich muss ja gerade erst mal googeln Google und oder in App Subscription made easy. Ah, okay. Ja, die sind so Strip Strip sozusagen, ne. Ja, genau, die sind so bisschen, also viele, also die grade Personen, die neue Apps rausbringen mit In Appources setzen immer sehr stark auf auf Revenue Cat und deshalb auch eine sehr gute Flotte Integration sozusagen. Genau. Aber man gibt natürlich noch mal Extragebühren ne. Also das ist natürlich, kann man natürlich bei 'nem gewissen Volumen verhandeln wie immer, aber das ist natürlich der einfachste Weg, weil ich weiß noch damals, als ich Inderpources implementiert habe, da gibt's halt immer den ein oder anderen Edge Case, den man da handeln muss beim Blaystore und beim App Store und das war dann schon immer auch schmerzhaft damals gewesen. Genau. Aber deswegen hat mich jetzt einfach nur mal eine eine, ihr stellt mir ja so viele Fragen, hat mich jetzt einfach nur Ja, das war passiert. Also deswegen, ich find's ja immer eine Sache, die wollte ich unbedingt sagen. Es ist halt immer, ihr macht ja seit Jahren die Podcasts, ihr macht eure News Folgen, ihr macht all die ganzen Themen und ich find's absolut genial, aber eigentlich hat euch noch nie so richtig jemand interviewt und mal geschaut, wie macht ihr das eigentlich bei Lotum? Wie sehen eure Prozesse eigentlich aus? Wie welches wie löst ihr das? Natürlich kennt man eure Technologien, aber ihr fragt immer in die eine Richtung, aber eigentlich will man natürlich auch mal 'n bisschen mehr über Lotum erfahren und was sind was ist da vielleicht das Playbook, neue Apps zu entwickeln und die weltweit rauszubringen, ja? Das wär natürlich auch irgendwann noch mal eine spannende Folge. Hausaufgabe für 20 26. Müssen wir mal gucken, wie wir das denn Format gießen und vielleicht bietet sich Leon als Moderator an. Ja, sehr gerne. Ich komm mit Bad Nachher und komm mich mal in Person vorbei und schau mir das mal an, weil ich find's superspannend, was ihr macht und der genau, würd mich natürlich auch mal interessieren, was da eure principals sind. Sehr gut. Ich hab auch gerade noch, also Revenucat hat als Subteil ihrer Webseite in App subscription made easy. Da macht dann auch noch mal 'n bisschen mehr Sinn. Also ich glaub, weil das Management ist dann tatsächlich Ja, also wenn Du Wir hatten ja Die Dokuarkungs, Du hast es schon ganz schlank eigentlich. Ja, ja, genau. Aber wir haben ja selten bis gar nicht gemacht, was ja dann dann, glaube ich, einfach noch mal 'n Thema ist, weil Du das aufheben musst und verwalten musst und Migration tun und keine Ahnung was. Und das ist dann bei nur Käufen in Anführungsstrichen natürlich noch mal einfacher, wenn Du Weg Wegwerfkäufe hast. Und vor allen Dingen, ich wollt grad sagen, bei unseren Wegbackverkäufen oder Consumer Bekäufen halt auch wohl in 3 Monaten komplett egal ist, ob Du mal 'n paar Münzen gekauft hast oder nicht. Bei Subscriptions muss man die halt immer wiederherstellen können. Man muss sozusagen natürlich den den State auch backendseitig in 'ner gewissen Form pflegen können, montainen können und so weiter und so fort. Da sind natürlich Sole Lösungen hilfreich, aber auf 'nem gewissen Volumen und Umsatz macht es wahrscheinlich auch Sinn, da eine eigene Lösung zu haben, da einfach keinen kein keine keine Vieh abgeben zu müssen sozusagen. Als ihr angefangen habt mit Bling, wie sah damals eure Vision aus? Also war das dieses Organisieren des Taschengeldes oder war wirklich auch schon diese Vision, wir wollen all diese verschiedenen Themen, die es dort gibt, an anpacken? Nee, wir sind komplett über den Taschengeldansatz damals gekommen und das war auch die Vision und das war auch, sage ich mal, die höchste Priorität und dann hat sich das über die Jahre einfach so weiterentwickelt, dass wir uns da verbreitert haben. Aber zum Start war es ganz klar, lasst uns dieses Taschengeldprodukt für Familien bauen. Lass uns das ermöglichen, dass Kinder und Jugendliche zahlen können unter der Kontrolle der Eltern. Lass Eltern den Werkzeugkasten an die Hand geben, dass sie steuern können, wie frei Kinder bezahlen können sollen. Will ich die Transaktionen sehen? Will ich sie nicht sehen? Am Ende liefern wir den Werkzeugkasten, das überhaupt zu ermöglichen. Genau und das war natürlich damals die Vision gewesen und das diese Verbreiterung kam dann einfach über die Zeit. Und jetzt noch mal, da haben wir, glaub ich, noch nicht hier übergesprochen, eine Frage als Vater. Wenn man Bling nutzen will, macht es vor allen Dingen Sinn, wenn das Kind schon ein Smartphone hat? Genau, also es ist ist so, dass man da den größten Funktionsumfang hat, während das Kind schon ein Smartphone hat. Es ist aber auch möglich, dass ein Wir unterstützen auch 'n Tablet Log in, das ist so der Junior Mode sozusagen, nennen wir den. Das bedeutet, dass man mehrere Profile auf 'nem Tablet hat, son bisschen wie man das bei Netflix kennt und zwischen den Kindern dann wechseln kann. Das ist auch möglich, weil einscannen vom QR Code kann man sich da entsprechend auch auf 'nem Tablet zum Beispiel einloggen. Weil oft haben Familienhalt eben einen Tablet und sonst würde es sich theoretisch auf komplett aus der Elternansicht alle steuern lassen, dass man die Kinder das Kinderlog in da nicht aktivieren müsste. Also entweder man hat das Kinderlog in, weil es Kinder 'n Smartphone hat, man benutzt den Junior Mode, weil man ein Family Tablet hat. Das sind son bisschen die das sind son bisschen die Möglichkeiten, die man da hat. Okay. Dann würde ich gerne noch auf einen ganz anderen Punkt zu sprechen kommen. Und zwar hast Du ja am Anfang deiner Geschichte erzählt, wie ihr Neon aufgebaut habt und das Ganze sehr spartanisch angefangen hat, positiv formuliert oder sehr lean, wie man heute sagen würde, ja. Und bei Bling seid ihr ja einen sehr anderen Weg gegangen. So wie ich das verstehe, ist Bling ja fremdfinanziert. Richtig. Und da würde mich mal interessieren, wie wie wie viel Kulturschock das für dich war im Prinzip. Kommt von so, wir wir haben Neon gebotsrappt und selber aufgebaut und organisch mit entsprechend Zeit groß gemacht hin zu Blingen, wo vielleicht die Mittel und Wege dann anders waren, aber auch die Herausforderungen und die Rechenschaft vielleicht auch? Ist eine gute Frage. Wir, der der Blink case war am Anfang so gestaltet gewesen, dass wir gesagt haben, wir machen das Bootstrap, weil Nils sozusagen als Schweizer in der Schweiz damals angefangen hat, Hörspiele in die Schweiz zu importieren, die in Schweizer Deutschland aufzulegen, weil das sone Marktlücke war. Und dann hat er sozusagen sehr stark in dem Segment sozusagen gearbeitet und hat dann da eigene Buchreihen rausgebracht und so weiter und so fort, eigene Hörbücher, deutsche Hörbücher in der Schweiz verlegt und kam dann auch sehr stark aus diesem Engel, hat dann die größte Schülerzeitung der Schweiz sozusagen gegründet, TIEs und hat das dann sozusagen teilweise die Unternehmen verkauft und die Schülerzeitung, das kann ich grad gar nicht beantworten, das weiß ich grad gar nicht. Das kann ich grad gar nicht beantworten, das weiß ich grad gar nicht. Auch verkauft oder Ihr kommt auch bald Sublingen zurück. Ich seh das schon. Übergebene sozusagen. Und deswegen haben wir natürlich sehr stark dieses Bootstopp Mindset Mindset gehabt. Dann haben wir gesagt, okay, wir starten Bling. Lass uns das Bootstrip machen, das war die Idee und so ist es auf ihn, ist es alles losgegangen. Und dann gab's so die ersten Zeitungsartikel und dann sind sozusagen die ersten Venture Capital Unternehmen auf uns zugekommen, die aus Berlin, haben uns besucht, sind vorbeigekommen. Haben gesagt, finden Sie 'n spannenden Case? Und dann haben wir natürlich auch son bisschen realisiert über die Zeit, okay, das wirklich groß zu machen, brauchen wir einfach 'n gewisses Startkapital, das zu ermöglichen. Und haben dann sozusagen unsere ersten Partner, VC Partner mit reingenommen, die bei uns investiert sind und da haben wir sozusagen Im Sprech sind wir sozusagen Post Series A nennt man das in 'ner gewissen Form. Es gibt sozusagen eine Seed Runde und es gibt eine eine Post Series A Runde sozusagen und haben da natürlich eine ganze Menge an Kapital eingesammelt, aber Geld benötigen wir halt, hier jetzt wachsen zu können. Es ist aber jetzt nicht so, dass man Wir sind uns, glaub ich, im Herzen sehr treu geblieben. Es ist jetzt nicht so, dass die, dass sich da jetzt zu unserem Bootstrap Mindset, wir haben zwar mehr Kapital zur Verfügung und können brauchen das, das halt eben entsprechend groß zu machen, aber es ist jetzt nicht so, dass man sich jetzt hier irgendwie fühlt und es belagert mit Geld. Das ist überhaupt nicht der Fall. Also man hat sehr stark die Botschaft Mentality weiterhin und vielleicht würde sich der ein oder andere auch noch mal stärker wünschen von von von von Leuten, die wir bei uns im Umfeld haben, dass wir die 'n bisschen stärker ablegen, aber Nils und ich sind da sehr streng. Jeder jeder Vertrag mit dem Partner muss nachverhandelt werden. Da wird erst approved. Auch die Leute bei Fiber müssen nachverhandelt werden. Es muss alles sozusagen nachverhandelt werden. Wir versuchen da so sparsam wie möglich an unser Ziel zu kommen und das mit dem Kapitaleinsatz, den wir entsprechend haben. Ist ja eine lange Runrate lobenswert, aber so wie ich das gelesen hab, habt ihr ja schon auch 'n bisschen was von dem Geld in die Hand genommen, so größere Einkäufe zu tätigen. Hast Du 'n hast Du 'n Beispiel, worauf Du Ah, okay, jetzt ich versteh, worauf Du hinaus ist. Hat's kurz gedauert. Genau, was wir natürlich gemacht haben, ist, dass wir Fin Step 'n Unternehmen gekauft haben vor wenigen Monaten, da jetzt aktiv sind, die bei uns natürlich in die App zu integrieren. Und genau, da natürlich noch mal grade in dem Rahmen finanzielle Bildung, weil's uns einfach sehr wichtig ist, da 'n Unternehmen gefunden haben, was sehr gut passt und dass bei uns natürlich gesagt haben, okay, das wollen wir sehr stark bei uns eingliedern und das war natürlich 'n Thema, was wir vor einigen Monaten natürlich entsprechend angestoßen haben. Ich hab mich grad schon geholt, worauf Du worauf Du Es gab im Kopf von so die ganzen, meint er den Whirlpool auf der Dachterrasse, meint er, was? Welche großen Einkäufer? Weiter. Nein, also ja, ich, genau, ich meinte meinte Finstap. Und was mich interessieren würde, ist, das ist ja, also aus, ihr seid noch relativ jung und trotzdem schon quasi eine andere Firma da übernommen. Wie lief das organisatorisch? Habt ihr die bei euch integriert? Lasst ihr das weiterhin alles getrennt und integriert das quasi nur kundenseitig in der in der App? Wie wie führt ihr diese 2 Firmen zusammen? Genau, also bei uns ist es so, Nils hat das sehr stark gestartet, muss man an der Stelle sagen. Also Nils, mein Kofferraum da, wie gesagt, ich bin für den kompletten Productbereich zuständig und für den kompletten Rest ist Nils sozusagen zuständig. Das ist son bisschen die Aufteilung bei uns. Das bedeutet, bei uns sieht das jetzt aktuell so aus, dass wir uns alles, was sozusagen Fin Step ausmacht sozusagen versuchen, in die Black App unterzubringen. Wir werden das nicht als 2 getrennte Apps haben, die sind ja auch mit unterschiedlichen Technologien gebaut und auch unterschiedliche Datenstrukturen. Das bedeutet, wir werden das komplett überführen und werden das bei uns alle Inhalte und alles, was Fin Step ausmacht, werden wir die Kinderansicht bei uns entsprechend unterbringen. Und das wird dann Anfang Anfang des nächsten Jahres so weit sein, dass das entsprechend auch live geht. Okay. Dennis, hast Du noch eine Frage? Es ist jetzt 'n bisschen spät, weil das Ganze am Anfang war, aber vielleicht trotzdem, weil's mich noch mal interessiert und bist ja bist dann schnell weitergegangen war, diese Youtube Anfänge. Aber heut wollte ich noch mal ganz kurz rein, weil Du sagtest, ja, da warst Du selbst irgendwie 13, 14, weil erst da dachte ich, okay, damals schon mit der Zielgruppe zu tun. Dann dachte ich, Du hast irgendwie Lernvideos für Kinder und Jugendliche gemacht, aber Du warst ja selbst noch Kind und Jugendliche dann in der Zeit. Wo kam denn damals dann dein Wissen her, was Du dir, was Du dann verbreitet hast? Na ja, das ist 'n guter Punkt. Ich glaube, was ich damals gemacht habe, ist natürlich, dass ich mir sehr, sehr viele andere Youtube Videos angeschaut habe international und das Wissen sozusagen aggregiert habe und geschaut hab, okay, was fehlt irgendwie in dem deutschen Markt oder wo waren halt eben Leute einfach grade Probleme und das Wissen halt eben aggregiert habe. Vielleicht das, was heute eine AI machen würde und das sozusagen in noch mal 'nem anderen Format halt eben erklärt habe. Und ich glaube, dass ich mir da eine sehr gute Erkläreigenschaft über die Jahre angeeignet hab, dass ich halt eben Wissen konsumiert habe, sehr tief in in unterschiedliche Themen reingegangen bin und versucht hab, die noch mal aggregiert, einfach in 'ner gewissen Form darzustellen. Und da ging es halt so Videos wie, okay, wie setze ich zum Beispiel 'n Linux Server auf, aber auch wie setze ich bestimmte Gaming Server auf, wie hoste ich die wo und so weiter und so fort. Wie kann ich die in 'ner gewissen Form skalieren? Wie kann ich aber auch Plug Ins für bestimmte Server entwickeln, also für bestimmte Spiele zum Beispiel? Es ist sehr in diese technische Entwicklungsrichtung gegangen und das war so in 'ner gewissen Form der Fokus gewesen für den deutschen Markt und damals war es oft noch nicht alles noch nicht so international gewesen. Und die Plattform war natürlich auch einfach noch sehr, sehr klein, dass man auf zu allen nicht Hunderte oder tausende Videos gefunden hat. Also heute haben wir ja da eine Contentflut, aber damals gab's halt nur ein Video und wenn man das, wenn man 'n Tutorial gemacht hat nach einem Video und es hat bei einem Lokal nicht geklappt, dann war man als Endkonsument super unzufrieden, weil man so dachte, ich hab das doch 1 zu 1 genauso gemacht. Warum klappt das bei mir nicht? Ich Und man hat halt nicht diese Auswahl, die man heute hat, wo man sich 10 Videos anschaut und sagt, ah okay, ich hatte eine ganz andere Version zum Beispiel, deswegen hat das nicht geklappt zum Beispiel. Oder die Person hat einfach das Video umbenannt und das ist eigentlich was ganz anderes gewesen. Genau, das war son bisschen der Hintergrund. Die spannende Frage ist eigentlich, gibt's die Videos noch? Die Videos gibt's nicht mehr. Ich hab die mittlerweile alle privat genommen. Vielleicht tue ich die immer noch mal rausnehmen. Es ist aber immer eine schöne Erinnerung. Ich schau mir die schon alle paar Jahre entsprechend an und genau. Deswegen, ich bin auch mal gespannt. Ich hab auf unsere Reise, die ich sozusagen dann ja, gestartet habe, habe ich auch immer in Videos dokumentiert. Das bedeutet ich, das finde ich schön, vielleicht auch auf an an alle Zuhörer und Zuhörerinnen mal. Ich, alle paar Monate setze ich mich mit meinen Ängsten zusammen, also mit meinen Co Foundern von den jeweiligen Unternehmen setz ich mich entsprechend zusammen. Und wir drehen immer 'n Status Update und reden komplett ehrlich, wie wir uns grade fühlen, was grade gut läuft, die erste Einstellung des Mitarbeiters, was für Sorgen wir vielleicht auch haben, was klappt. Und wir schauen uns diese Videos nie wieder an. Also das bedeutet, wir haben diese Videos noch nie angeschaut. Wir haben das jetzt seit 10 Jahren oder so machen wir das. Und wir haben uns kein Video seitdem wieder angeschaut und irgendwann wollen wir das gerne mal zusammenschneiden und in 'nem besonderen Moment uns das alles anschauen. Und dann sieht man auch in 'ner gewissen Form noch mal die Up and Downs, die man halt auf dieser komplette Strecke hat und die auch in der Zukunft noch kommen. Also es sind ja, es wird noch viele Themen geben, noch viele Themen, die gut laufen, Sachen, die vielleicht doch einfach schlecht laufen. Das wird die Zukunft zeigen. Hast Du noch so eine irgendwie größte Herausforderung aus technologischer Sicht, die ihr im Moment habt? Oder bist Du relativ entspannt und ihr entwickelt einfach Features? Ich glaube, es ist son bisschen die größte Herausforderung, ich glaub, weniger in technischer Sicht, sondern wie bekomm ich alt, wie bekomm ich AI am besten in meine Produktprozesse überall inkludiert? Wo macht das Sinn? Wo macht das keinen Sinn? Das ist, glaub ich, immer eine Herausforderung. Wie bekomme ich auch Leute überzeugt, die vielleicht weniger Lust auf die Usage von AI zum Beispiel haben, damit sich selbst zu hebeln? Wie bekomme ich Leute, die es zu viel einfach nutzen dazu, es weniger zu nutzen? Ich glaub, das ist son bisschen die Herausforderung und deswegen fände ich's auch irgendwann noch mal spannend bei euch, noch mal 'n Podcast hören, nicht mit mir, aber vielleicht mit jemand anders, noch mal ganz tief dadrüber, über I zu sprechen in dem Zusammenhang, wie bekomme ich PS auf die Straße? Wie kann ich das aktiv in Produktprozesse inkludieren? Wie mache ich das, wie bring ich das meinen Teammitgliedern bei? Wo macht was Sinn? Cursor, Co Pilot, alles Mögliche, was es ergibt, die unterschiedlichen Modelle? Wie kann ich das im Produktmanagement, in Design? Welche MPMCP Servermassen Sinn und so? Das wär, glaub ich, noch mal 'n spannendes Thema. Das will sich mir, die Folge würde ich mir gerne bei euch irgendwann noch mal anhören. Mag das, wenn auch mal 'n bisschen Ideen und Forderungen der Fotografie gegenüber gestellt werden. Das find ich sehr gut, Jan. Ja, also kommt direkt hab ich schon aufgeschrieben grade. Ja, sehr gut. Auf die auf die Liste. Cool. Okay. Dann keine letzte Frage mehr? Nein? Nein? Also ich würde jetzt Lea noch eine stellen, die wir klassischerweise stellen, aber das machst Du vielleicht. Kannst Du doch, kannst Du gerne machen. Ich hab nur eine letzte Anmerkung. Ich hab nämlich eben noch mal Wikipedia aufgemacht und die Euro raus. Nee, ich Job. Nein, nein, nein, ich hab angefangen. Kitty. Was? Das hast Du nämlich nicht rausgeholt in der Zeit, ich aber. 2 Jahre lang hieß sie Kitty. Ich bin dir einen Sprung voraus. Ich hab nämlich noch Gemini genutzt. Ich hab nicht Gemini genutzt, sondern deshalb hab ich die richtigen Fakten. Juli 2000 Okay, erzähl, was im Juli passierte. Nein, ich wollte nur sagen, dass die Euromaus wirklich Euromaus heißt, Ja. So. Aber sie heißt at mit Vorname und das war mir aus meiner Jugend nicht Ja, aber noch mal mehr, weil Du ja auch alt bist schon. Danke. Neunzehnhundertsiebenundsiebzig bis 2015 hieß sie. Nur Euromaus, da gab's jetzt noch nicht. Ja. Und den Vornamen Ed und damals auch dann noch mit Edda zusammen kam erst Juli 2015 zum vierzigjährigen Park Jubiläum. Genau. Und nämlich 2 Jahre, das ist dann für die Hardcore Fans, von 75 bis neunzehnhundertsiebenundsiebzig hieß sie Kitty und wurde dann in den Euromaos umbenannt. Das ist ja auch 'n bisschen nach 1 eine Rolle, Kitty zu nennen. Nach 1 Umfrage durch eine Zeitung und tatsächlich auch, oh Bin ich gespannt. Ach nee, das war, glaub ich, schon die Umfrage. Irgendwo irgendwo gab's noch eine Umfrage Ob's wieder zurückgenannt werden soll? Nee, aber ja, da kann doch eher dazu. Aber jetzt sind wir auch da noch schlauer geworden. Ja, freut mich, dass wir das noch mal klären konnten jetzt, dahinter. Die richtigen Fragen eben. Kritischer Journalismus in der Programmierbar. Hoffentlich ist das nicht halluziniert mit diesem Kiddy Ding. Vielleicht hätte ich das noch mal verifizieren sollen. Ah okay, also das Kiddy Ding ist von der AI, da übernehmen wir aber keine Haftung drauf. Eure Maus halt stimmt, aber jetzt kannst Du mit deiner letzten Frage abschließen. Genau. Das ist ja auch so schon 'n Klassiker in der CTO Folge, nämlich wenn Du der der junge Leon, ich glaub, so alt bist Du auch immer noch nicht, aber trotzdem zurückreisen könntest und deinem sehr jungen Ich etwas zuflüstern könntest, was dir irgendwie in der Zeit deutlich weitergeholfen hätte oder was Du anders machen würdest. Gibt's da irgendwas, was dir spontan in den Kopf kommt, wo Du sagst, so, das wär was, das hätte ich gern früher gewusst? Ja, ich glaube mir auf mein Bauchgefühl hören. Ich glaube, das ist was, was ich über die letzten Jahre am stärksten gelernt habe, dass ich meinem Bauchgefühl sehr stark vertrauen kann und dass man manchmal dazu neigt, das zu überschreiben mit Fakten und sich das wegzuaktionalisieren. Und dass ich einfach festgestellt hab, dass ich in der Vergangenheit noch mehr hätte auf mein Bauchgefühl hören müssen. Und das ist was, was ich meinem jungen Abend nicht gerne sagen wollen würde. Cool. Vielen Dank. Danke euch. Vielen, vielen Dank für die Einladung. Hat Spaß gemacht. Hat uns auch Spaß gemacht. Schön, dass Du da warst. Schön, dass Du dir Zeit genommen hast. Wenn ihr da draußen noch Fragen habt zur Euromaus oder zu anderen Themen, dann könnt ihr gerne eine E-Mail schreiben denn Tennis at Programm. Euromaus at programmiert Punkt bar. Oder kommt auf unser Discord Server und stellt da eure Fragen oder hinterlasst einfach gerne Kommentare und Bewertungen auf den ganzen Social Media und Podcast Plattformen. Wir freuen uns immer. Wir lesen auch alles fleißig mit, auch wenn wir nicht ehrlicherweise immer zeitnah antworten können. Zum Beispiel, dass wir Gleich könnte man auch aus dieser Folge, obwohl live haben wir immer schon schwer gemacht, aber Leons Idee mit diesem mit, ob Du nun son Armer machst, son, der Programmierer und Lotum. Aber mehr dazu bald nächstes Jahr oder so. Ich weiß gar nicht wann die Folge kommt, vielleicht auch übernächste, whatever. So. Cool. Lea, vielen, vielen Dank. Hat dir sehr viel Spaß gemacht. Mir auch. Danke dir Leon. Wir hören und sehen uns bald wieder. Bis dann. Bis dann, macht's gut. Tschau, tschau. Tschau, 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0: Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbar Spezial CTO Special Sonderausgabe. Weiß nicht, so jetzt sehr viel Spezial. Aber so ist es halt bei uns. Ja. Keine Folge wie die andere.\n\nUnd heute mit mir im Studio ist Dennis Becker. Dennis Becker. Und wer ist mit dir im Studio, Dennis?\n\nSpeaker 1: Jan Gregor M Getriebe.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das hast Du wunderbar gesagt. Das ist viel einfacher, als wenn ich das selber machen muss. Okay. Das ist Arbeitsteilung hier am Arbeitsplatz.\n\nSpeaker 1: Dabei haben wir uns erst so kurz vor diesem neue Intro entschieden. Jetzt hast Du schon wieder mich völlig den Puls hochgetrieben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, Du, man musst ja auf Zack halten, weißt Du? Ja. Wer rastet, der rostet. Dennis, Du bist auch großer Fan vom Europapark, oder? Ja.\n\nSo. Du wolltest, wie heißt das, Maskottchen vom Europapark?\n\nSpeaker 1: Jetzt jetzt, ich glaub, die Folge kommt zu spät raus, aber jetzt heißt, wir könnten son programmierbarhörer eintreffen im Europapark machen. Das Weil im Dezember fahren wir ja mit 'n paar Kolleginnen noch mal in den Europapark.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das wird, also das wird\n\nSpeaker 1: halt für diese Folge nix mehr, aber vielleicht können wir also die News noch mal aufnehmen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das können wir ja, ja, kommen wir hin. Also, Anyway, wie heißt das Maskottchen vom Europapark?\n\nSpeaker 1: Die Euromaus?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, die Euromaus, genau. Wolltest Du schon immer mal die Euromaus im Portemonnaie haben?\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich hatte lieber 'n Bild von der Euromir in meinem Portemonnaie als die Euromaus.\n\nSpeaker 0: Leon, Du siehst, ich hab es versucht, ja? Ich ich hab es versucht, ihn dahin zu bringen. Er hat das nicht verstanden. Wir haben heute im Studio unsere\n\nSpeaker 1: Die Euro Maus.\n\nSpeaker 0: Unseren Gast Leon Stefan, der nicht die Euro Maus ist. Oh. Leon ist der CTO von und Mitgründer von Bling und Bling bietet unter anderem Bezahlkarten für Kinder an und Du kannst sie bestellen mit dem Motiv der Euromaus. Das wär jetzt eigentlich meine Einleitung gewesen, aber Du bist nicht so ganz drauf angesprungen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, doch, aber die die Frage ist ja, also wie alt schätzt Du mich?\n\nSpeaker 0: Also die Frage ist ja, wie alt fühlst Du bist?\n\nSpeaker 1: Und ob auf mein Kind das Richtige für mich ist, das erzählt uns jetzt Leon. Erst mal begrüßen wir ihn vielleicht. Hallo Leon, schön, dass Du da bist.\n\nSpeaker 2: Super. Vielen, vielen lieben Dank für die Einladung. Hallo Jan, hallo Dennis. Ihr sprecht über Ed und Edda aus dem Europapark entsprechend. Das sind die beiden Maskottchen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Siehst Du,\n\nSpeaker 2: Du hast er hat sogar\n\nSpeaker 1: er hat sogar die Intro nicht richtig hinbekommen\n\nSpeaker 0: mit der Euro Maus. Das siehst doch früher Euro\n\nSpeaker 2: Maus, oder?\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich bin verwirrt. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und ja, ich bin zufälligerweise auch jetzt im Winter über Weihnachts geht's für mich immer einmal im Jahr mit meinem Mitgründer Nils, immer in den Europapark. Da sind wir immer ein Wochenende. Das machen wir immer aus Tradition jährlich, witzigerweise, dass ihr da auch diese Sane fahrt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Na cool. Ist Edda sone Ergänzung wegen Gleichberechtigung irgendwann gewesen oder sind Edda und Edda schon gemeinsam gestartet oder war das irgendwann nur mal Ed? Weißt Du das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist nur, das müsste man jetzt die Europapark Hardcore Fans, glaube ich, an dem Punkt fragen, weil sozusagen Bling selbst hat ja keine Relation mit dem Europapark. Wir sind natürlich Europapark Fans, aber das kann ich dir leider gar nicht beantworten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Okay, sehr gut. Ich mein, können wir jetzt nicht im Prinzip, wenn wir jetzt übernächste Woche in den Europapark fahren, können wir das jetzt nicht als Recherchereise abschreiben, weil wir das für diese Podcastfolge quasi dringend klären müssen?\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielleicht gibt's auch Pressetickets. Ja, müssen wir gucken.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ne, aber bevor wir über Edda sprechen und darüber schauen, wie sie bei euch auf die Bezahlkarten gekommen sind, Stefan lass uns, Leon, ist das schlecht Stefan, oh Gott, Lass uns doch einmal erst mal darüber sprechen, was ihr überhaupt macht und wie ihr dazu gekommen seid. Vielleicht einmal ganz kurz der Elevator Pitch für alle, die Bling nicht kennen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ja, sehr gerne. Also Bling ist eine Taschengeldkarte für Kinder und Jugendliche zwischen 7 und 17 Jahre. Damit sind wir sozusagen 2022 mit an den Markt gegangen. Die Company selbst wurde von Nils und Nil gegründet in 20 21. Wir sind mit der Vision rangegangen zu sagen, hey, in der Schule lernt man eigentlich, lernt den Satz des Pythagoras, man lernt Gedichte zu interpretieren, aber man lernt überhaupt nicht den Umgang mit Geld und wir wollen gerne eine Lösung für Kinder und Jugendliche schaffen, haben da eine Marktlücke gesehen, sind da entsprechend in den Bereich reingegangen, haben die Taschengeldlösung selbst geschaffen, bauen da sozusagen auf 'ner kompletten Bankinginfrastruktur auf und haben dann nach und nach eine ganze Reihe von weiteren Produkten gelauncht.\n\nAlso mittlerweile machen wir Mobilfunk für für Familien. Wir machen einen Familienplaner. Man kann seinen ganzen Alltag darüber planen. Wir haben 'n Investmentprodukt am Start. Anfang Januar gehen wir sogar an die ganzen Schulen rein und launchen sozusagen Schulpayments.\n\nAlso das bedeutet, wir machen die ganzen Zahlungen für die Caterer in der Schule, weil man sein Essen abholen will. Also eine ganze ganze Bandbreite, die wir da jetzt über die Jahre geschaffen haben, das macht superviel Spaß mit dem Team und mit der Zielgruppe. Ist eine Zielgruppe, die Nils und ich sehr, sehr gerne haben, für die wir gerne Produkte entwickeln und das ist Bling an dem Punkt, wo es grade steht. Man könnte natürlich jetzt noch viel tiefer eintauchen, aber das mal als kurzer Überblick.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wenn Du sagst, das ist eine Zielgruppe, die euch die euch wichtig ist, wie war denn die Entscheidung, dahin zu kommen? Weil das ja vielleicht nicht das allernaheliegendste Produkt zu sagen, wir machen hier Finance für Kinder und Jugendliche.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ist 'n sehr, sehr guter Punkt. Also bei mir hat alles grundsätzlich son bisschen damals gestartet, 2011 hab ich Youtube angefangen. Das war son bisschen die zweite Generation Youtube, wenn man sich das vorstellen will. Also es gab damals eine Reihe von Kanälen, die es schon gab, aber Youtube war in Deutschland zumindest in ihren Ursprüngen. Da habe ich sozusagen angefangen, Tech Videos zu machen, hatte das dann damals bis auf 80000 Subscriber dann skaliert in 'ner gewissen Form.\n\nDas war für 2011, 2012, 2013 relativ viel und hab leider nie den silbernen Play Button bekommen. Das war immer son Ziel, das ist die Hunderttausendergrenze. Die hab ich leider nie erreicht und hab da ganz viele Tech Videos gedreht. Und da habe ich so die Leidenschaft für den Tech Bereich im Allgemeinen einfach gefunden und bin dann IBM gejoint, war viele paar Jahre bei IBM, hab da die unterschiedlichsten Projekte gemacht, durfte dann in den USA sein, durfte in allen Ländern dieser Welt Projekte umsetzen und hab dann danach Neon gegründet, 'n App Studio, was App Entwicklung macht für für Corporate, für Mittelständler, für alles Mögliche und hab dann Niels kennengelernt. Weil Niels und das jetzt kommt die Story, Du, jetzt komme ich zu deiner Frage sozusagen zurück.\n\nNiels ist Schweizer, hat damals in der in der Schweizer Welt als Kindermoderator sehr, sehr früh gestartet und hatte da schon immer diesen Bezug zu der Zielgruppe. Ich damals über Youtube den Bezug zu der Zielgruppe in 'ner gewissen Form schon sehr stark und Nils hat dann Beratung für Schweizer Banken gemacht, ist dann auf diesen Markt aufmerksam geworden, hat dann ein Jahr für das Family Office im Europapark gearbeitet, deswegen kommt auch unsere Beziehung zum Europapark da zustande und er hat dann jemand gesucht, der das Ganze umsetzen kann und ist dann auf mich aufmerksam geworden. Nils hatte die Woche, glaube ich, 3 Wochen bevor wir uns getroffen haben, haben dann darüber gesprochen Und ich hab gesagt, das ist mega, lass uns lass uns das zusammen umsetzen. Und so ist dann die ganze Reise gestartet 2021.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast es am Anfang in sonem Halbsatz erwähnt, dass Du da so diese Youtube Videos gemacht hast Anfang der Zweitausendzehnerjahre. Aber vielleicht für alle da draußen zur Einordnung, wie alt warst Du da?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich war damals 13 oder 14, als ich damit sozusagen angefangen hab. Also ich bin jetzt 28 und genau, da war ich muss ich 13, 14 in die Richtung gewesen sein, wo ich gestartet bin und konnte damit natürlich auch meine Jugend in 'ner gewissen Form finanzieren, weil es gab damals auch den Youtube Partnerstatus, auf den man sich bewerben konnte, war 1 der Ersten, der dann auf Werbung schalten konnte. Und so ist das dann damals alles gestartet und hat auch für mich meiner Meinung nach die Grundpfeiler gelegt für all das, was ich jetzt liebe und gerne mache.\n\nSpeaker 0: Da ist natürlich viel, ich will nicht sagen Glück, weil ich will ja nicht euren eure Arbeit quasi runter reden, aber vielleicht glückliche Fügung irgendwie auch dabei gewesen, ja, dass jemand eine coole App Idee hat, Du schon seit Jahren quasi App gebaut hast, ihr euch zum richtigen Zeitpunkt gefunden habt, das Interesse irgendwie schon da war für die Domäne. War das für dich schon immer so, als Du 'n App Studio aufgebaut hast, dass Du sagst, ah, ich will auch irgendwann son son richtiges eigenes Produkt und nicht nur in in Dienstleistung quasi andere Sachen entwickeln oder war das mehr so, da hat sich die Gelegenheit ergeben und ihr habt das genutzt? Gab's da, hattest Du da 'n Plan? Ist vielleicht die die kurze Version dieser Frage.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube, ich bin im Leben grundsätzlich sehr opportunistisch und bin der Meinung, dass sich jedem von uns im Leben so viele Türen an an jeden an jeder Stelle öffnen. Man muss einfach nur mutig sein und und diese Wege in 'ner gewissen Form gehen und natürlich auch die Motivation haben, hart working zu sein, viele Sachen einfach weiterzuverfolgen. Für mich war, nachdem ich viele Jahre in 'ner gewissen Form das Softwarestudio gemacht habe, für viele unterschiedliche Unternehmen einfach Produkte gebaut habe und Neon ist auch heute sehr, sehr erfolgreich, hat sich für mich einfach irgendwann der Punkt ergeben, dass ich gesagt hab, ich möchte gern einfach mal den kompletten Zyklus owen. Also es bedeutet, als Dienstleister ist man eigentlich immer nur ein Rad im Wagen. Man kann super Produkt bauen, aber man ist bedingt nur für den Gesamterfolg verantwortlich ehrlicherweise und dadurch, dass man eine Product Company von 0 aufbaut, hat man ja ist ja von den 45 Personen, die jetzt bei Bling arbeiten, nur 'n Teilbereich sozusagen im Productbereich angesiedelt, aber es gibt von Customer Support über HR, über Marketing, Paid Acquisition, CRM, Finance, so viele Abteilungen, die allen gigantischen Erfolg erweitert leisten, halt das Produkt erfolgreich zu machen und das wollte ich einfach mal spüren, weil wenn man sowas entsprechend aufbauen kann, dass man auch für den Gesamterfolg sozusagen des Unternehmens oder des Produktes verantwortlich und nicht nur für einen Teilbereich und zwar den Dienstleisterbereich etwas für andere zu bauen oder zu entwickeln.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt könnt ihr natürlich sehr von diesen ganzen Erfahrungen, die ihr mit Neon gemacht hattet, profitieren, als ihr blind gebaut habt, aber auch diese Erfahrungen kommen ja nicht von ungefähr. So. Und Du hast gerade gesagt, Du hast direkt nach deinem Studium und deiner Zeit bei RWM quasi gegründet. Wie waren denn da so die die Anfangsjahre? Weil so, ne, ein Dienstleister aufzumachen ist ja das eine, die Kunden zu gewinnen und das Ganze dann irgendwie groß zu machen, ist ja das das andere, das ist ja kein Selbstläufer.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, da hast Du natürlich vollkommen recht. Ich glaube, ich hatte mir damals, ich hab das zusammen mit Niklas Stenberg und meinem Co Founder bei Neon entsprechend gegründet und wir haben uns damals so die Frage gestellt, wie soll's weitergehen? Und wir waren selbst noch Anfang 20 gewesen zu dem Zeitpunkt, wo wir das gemacht haben und wir haben halt eben gesagt, hey, wir geben uns ein Jahr jetzt und wir verfolgen ein Jahr diese Idee, dieses App Studio entsprechend aufzubauen. Was haben wir zu verlieren? Wir haben eine Reihe von Erfahrungen, die wir gewinnen können.\n\nWir haben relativ geringe Lebensunterhalt. Lass uns das doch zusammen angehen. Wir sind zusammen nach Berlin gezogen, haben eine eine sehr, sehr große WG gemietet sozusagen, haben unser Office sozusagen in die WG gemast, also das Büro sozusagen 5, 6 Arbeitsplätze waren aus unserer Wohnung heraus. Das war sozusagen der Weg, wie wir unser erstes Office finanziert haben und dann haben wir das Team natürlich auch in unserer Wohnung runtergebracht in 'ner gewissen Form und darüber ist das gewachsen. Und das war natürlich ganz simpel.\n\nNiklas und ich haben damals angefangen. Wir haben an einem Abend einfach zufällig entschieden, Niklas macht Frontend Entwicklung, ich mach Backend Entwicklung und das war so der Zufall und seitdem ist es so geblieben und dann hat sich das Ganze näher und selbstfinanziert natürlich aufgebaut, ist dann auf entsprechend auf über 20 Mitarbeiter gewachsen und dann sehr, sehr groß geworden und ja, das war das waren so bisschen die Anfänge und das erste Jahr hat sehr gut geklappt und haben gesagt, lass es uns noch 'n weiteres Jahr machen Und so hat sich das in 'ner gewissen Form einfach entwickelt. Und man hatte natürlich den Vorteil, dass man nicht verschuldet ist, jetzt keine keine keine erweiterte, noch keine Kinder zum Beispiel hat, keine Frau, sondern man hat gesagt, ganzes Leben war und ist halt in 'ner gewissen Form diese Arbeit und deswegen kann man da auch alles reingeben und dann kann man dafür natürlich auch leben und das Ganze auch dann entsprechend wachsen lassen. Also der Vorteil der jungen Jahre hat da einfach sehr, sehr stark geholfen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt ist ja aber Neon in der Zeit gegründet, wo jetzt vielleicht die initiale Goldgräberstimmung in dem App Store schon vorbei war und nicht mehr jeder einfach nur irgendwie eine App haben wollte, sondern der Markt ja schon son bisschen gesättigter war vielleicht auch, ja. Was waren das für Kunden und wie klein oder groß waren denn da so die Projekte, mit denen ihr da angefangen habt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das ist eine, wir haben uns halt damals sehr stark, wir haben, als wir angefangen haben, haben wir gesagt, wir probieren alle Technologien aus. Also das bedeutet, wir haben uns damals mit Erkundung 4 Monate Zeit genommen und haben alle Technologien. Wir haben reg Native, alle alles Mögliche, View, React, Ragnative. Wir haben wir haben Go ausprobiert, NoGS, alles Mögliche sind wir durchgegangen und dann haben wir uns entschieden, okay, wir gehen in die Nische der Flatter App Entwicklung und ihr seid ja auch große Flatter Fans, wenn ich das Richtige in Erinnerung habe. Ich hab euch vorhin schon mal erwähnt von 20 19.\n\nIn der Anfangszeit von Neon war der programmierbar Podcast 'n großer Begleiter von mir. Also meine meinen Start in die Selbstständigkeit habt ihr mit begleitet in 'ner gewissen Form. Wir haben uns natürlich sehr stark auf die Nische der Flatterentwicklung spezialisiert und dadurch, dass Flatterentwicklung in der Zeit sehr groß geworden ist, das waren meiner Meinung nach so mit die besten Jahre von Flatter, also es ist sehr stark angestiegen, 2 19, 2 20 ist die Technologie groß geworden und wir waren halt eben mit dabei und deswegen haben wir für viele große Corporates, wenn die neue Küchengeräte rausbringen und es wird eine Rezepte App benötigt, dann bekommen wir den Prototypen, wir entwickeln die Rezepte App dafür. Wenn eine News Verlage zum Beispiel sagen, hey, wir haben eine News App, wir möchten gerne eine White Label News App haben, das auf unsere 50 Zeitungen zu übertragen, dann bauen wir sozusagen die die die White Label App dafür entsprechend und das waren son bisschen die Projekte. Da haben wir die ersten Kunden an Land gezogen.\n\nDer Vorteil war aber ganz klar, dass wir gesagt haben, wir machen nur Flatter App Entwicklung und natürlich Backend Entwicklung, aber wir spezialisieren uns ausschließlich auf auf Flatter. Mittlerweile machen wir auch mehr Technologien, aber das war natürlich unser Vorteil, den wir damals hatten, dass wir an diese Technologie so stark geglaubt haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie wurde das bei euren Kunden aufgenommen? Weil so in im Nachgang lässt sich natürlich immer einfach sagen, ja,\n\nSpeaker 1: da habt ihr aufs richtige Pferd gesetzt so, ja. Aber Du\n\nSpeaker 0: hast selber gesagt, da war Flatter noch relativ jung, da hat sich viel auch getan, ja. Musste man da Überzeugungsarbeit leisten, jemandem zu erklären, dass, ja, dieses Multiplattform Framework aus der Pause Google mit 1 Codebasis irgendwie alle Plattformen zu versorgen. Das ist zwar noch recht jung, aber das wird schon irgendwie funktionieren. Oder hat sich das verkauft wie geschnitten Brot, weil die Leute nur gehört haben, boah, ich muss nur einmal eine Entwicklung bezahlen und ich kann überall irgendwie meine Apps haben.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, wir haben halt damals so so reingestartet, dass sie halt eben gesagt haben, wir definieren bestimmte Milestones und ihr müsst uns keinen Euro vorab bezahlen. Also das bedeutet, wir gehen komplett in den Invest rein. Ihr bezahlt uns, wenn wir das, was wir versprochen haben, abgeliefert haben. Ihr seid damit zufrieden, dann findet erst die Bezahlung statt. Und das ist natürlich in dem Geschäft, in dem wir unterwegs sind, komplett unüblich.\n\nAlso das ist normal, dass man 30, 50 Prozent vorher anzahlt, ist komplett üblich und ich glaube, da haben einfach die entsprechenden Entscheider an uns geglaubt und gesagt, wir haben ja nichts zu verlieren, lass uns das mit denen ausprobieren und wir müssen ja erst zahlen, wenn wir zufrieden sind. Und das ist natürlich komplett unüblich. Das funktioniert halt eben, wenn man noch sehr klein ist und umso größer man ist, hat man natürlich bestimmte Liquiditätspieaks,\n\nSpeaker 0: die\n\nSpeaker 2: man versucht, natürlich monatlich dann auszugleichen und zu schaut, dass man bestimmte Retainer reinbekommt, damit man halt eben diese starken Schwankungen nicht mehr hat. Aber das war natürlich 1 unserer größten Vorteile damals, dass wir so in den Markt reingegangen sind. Wir haben immer viel mit Stack Overflow argumentiert und gesagt haben, schaut euch mal an, wie die bei Stack Overflow am am sind. Auch in den jährlichen Reports sozusagen ist ja Flatter immer größer geworden. Es war insgesamt ist Flatter viel, viel günstiger zu entwickeln, als wenn ich Android und iOS entwickle.\n\nIch hab die doppelten Bugs potenziell. Ich brauch die doppelte Zahl in Entwicklern. Ich brauch viel mehr Produktmanagement und so weiter und so fort. Das sind natürlich von Cross Plattformen, ja, ist man da natürlich sehr sehr stark finanziell im Vorteil und natürlich, wie wir auch damals die Abwicklung gemacht haben, war das natürlich unser unser Weg in in die jeweiligen Unternehmen rein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber es war schon so, dass das in der Diskussion eine Rolle gespielt hat oder war die Technologieentscheidung da komplett euch überlassen und die Kunden haben gesagt, so hör mal, ich will hier diese News App und ob ihr die mit diesem Flatter oder oder Swift oder irgendwas anderes baut, ist mir eigentlich komplett egal. Hauptsache, die steht am Ende für den richtigen Preis.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich glaub, es ging vielen einfach da drum, dass wir sehr stark dieses White Label Produkt dann zum Beispiel bei den News Apps verkauft haben und wir haben natürlich dann auch in dem Zusammenhang die komplette CACD Pipeline mit verkauft. Das bedeutet, dass Du wirklich diese die Single Coobase hast und sozusagen und automatisiert in die jeweiligen App Store Accounts die App Updates ausrollen kannst auf 50 Apps verteilt und alles, was damit zusammentun. Und dann hat das Gesamtsystem, was wir uns überlegt haben, einfach Sinn gemacht, weil es so viel günstiger war als die Bestandslösungen entsprechend und so viel moderner, dass wir halt eben mit diesem Gesamtpaket einfach überzeugen konnten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast auch gesagt, ihr habt euch, bevor ihr bei Flatter angekommen seid, super viele andere Sachen angeguckt. Und das ist ja eigentlich für einen CTO 'n sehr wichtiges Skillset. So, einmal die komplette Breite an irgendwie Technologien sich anschauen zu können und dann aber auch sehr genau und zeitnah entscheiden zu können, okay, worauf setzen wir denn jetzt hier und und warum. Wie war da so die die Lernkurve für dich? Weil ich mein, natürlich hast Du im Studium auch schon viel gesehen und bei RBM bestimmt auch, ja, aber trotzdem ist das ja vielleicht dann noch mal was anderes, weil man das erste Mal in eigener Verantwortung da ist, vor einem Haufen neuer Technologien steht, die vielleicht auch alle noch nicht so sind, ja.\n\nUnd dann jetzt aber auf einmal entscheiden muss so, welches nehmen wir denn? So, wie hast Du dich unabhängig von der Entscheidung, die ihr jetzt zu flatter getroffen habt, aber wie bist Du da so methodisch vorgegangen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaub, das mache ich heute immer noch so. Wir suchen immer die Sache, die es am schwierigsten umzusetzen ist. Also es bedeutet, man baut 'n neues Produkt und sagt, was ist der Teil, der Teilbereich, der superschwierig ist umzusetzen? Was ist dieser Schlüsselpunkt, wo ich nicht weiß, das könnte einen Tag dauern, aber es könnte auch 3 Monate dauern. Was ist dieser Punkt?\n\nUnd diesen Punkt sozusagen nur diesen kleinen Spezifipip Punkt MVP Style mit unterschiedlichen Frameworks, mit unterschiedlichen Technologien umsetzen und schauen, bekomme ich das damit abgebildet? Funktioniert das so, wie ich mir das vorstelle? Und wenn es klappt, dann ist das für mich immer son bisschen das Zeichen, okay, das können wir wirklich einsetzen. Also wirklich nach den extremen Edge Cases suchen und zu sagen, was ich nicht mag, ist, wenn plötzlich Überraschungen kommen und deswegen versuch ich halt eben die Edge Cases vorher zu suchen und da waren sozusagen die Technologie zu messen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Weißt Du dann,\n\nSpeaker 2: was das\n\nSpeaker 1: war damals, flotter zu validieren?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaub, das waren damals an die Plattformchannels zum Beispiel zu schauen, okay, bekomme ich wirklich auch alles in 'ner gewissen Form nativ eingebunden, was ich möchte und so weiter und so fort. Und auch heute bei Bling setzen wir, wir haben ja bei uns bei Bling nicht nur unsere App in Flatter, sondern auch unser komplett komplettes Backoffice Tooling. Also man muss sich vorstellen, dadurch, dass wir die Services anbieten, müssen ja Karten gesperrt werden. Wir müssen KOSCs machen, also Nutzerverifizierung, Transaktionen, Fraud, alles Mögliche, die ganze Bandbreite. Auch das haben wir als macOS Applikationen zum Beispiel nativ bei uns gebaut.\n\nAlso wir sind da sehr tief im Stack drin und bis heute hab ich für uns keinen Use Case gefunden, den wir nicht irgendwie mit Flatter gelöst bekommen haben und deswegen sind wir auch superhappy auch heute noch mit der Technologie.\n\nSpeaker 1: Weil Du jetzt gerade diesen flüssigen Übergang inzwischen hast, nur, sagen wir mal kurz, einzuordnen. Also das heißt, Du hast noch was mit Neon zu tun aktuell und Neon hat aber auch irgendwas mit Bling zu tun?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es ist so, dass wir mit Neon damals den die erste Version von von Blinks sozusagen angeschoben haben in 'ner gewissen Form. Also das bedeutet, wir hatten ja das Developerteam und konnten da natürlich sagen, okay, wir bauen damit entsprechend die erste Version. Das war son bisschen unser Ziel und Neon selbst. Sowohl Niklas und ich sind natürlich in Bling involviert und das bedeutet, die sind relativ nah, die Unternehmen, aber es sind eigentlich komplett getrennte Unternehmen. Also es bedeutet, manchmal haben wir Projekte, zum Beispiel launchen wir jetzt grade entsprechend Bling for Schools, also unsere Blingmensa Lösung und jetzt ist Dezember, es soll im Januar live gehen.\n\nWir brauchen noch zusätzliche Entwickler, dann haben wir natürlich zusätzliche Entwickler von Neon noch an Bord, die jetzt grade in der finalen Phase unterstützen, aber sonst ist es getrennt. Neon lebt und lebt im alten Office von Beling und Beling ist 'n neues Office umgezogen, aber an sich sind es getrennte Unternehmen, die aber natürlich durch mich in 'ner gewissen Form miteinander verbunden sind. Auch wenn ich operativ sozusagen bei Neon nicht mehr involviert bin und super-, superhappy bin, dass Nicklas das so extrem gut bei Neon alles managt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann versuchen wir noch mal, diesen Übergang mitzunehmen. Ich glaube, es gibt in Softwareentwicklungen so 3 Königsdisziplinen. Und Dennis darf nicht beleidigt sein, wenn ich sag, dass Gaming nicht dazugehört. Und zwar geht es da wie kritisch Software ist. So und die die unterste Stufe ist für mich immer so alles, was mit Logistik zu tun hat oder Fertigung.\n\nSo, da da passiert was in der realen Welt. So, wenn Du Software baust, da wird 'n Paket verschickt, da bewegt sich 'n Roboter und macht was auf der Fertigungsstraße, keine Ahnung. Der Zweite, und da kommen wir nämlich jetzt hier zu Leon, ist immer wenn's Geld geht. Das ist alles, was was mit Fintech, mit Finanzprodukten und so weiter zu tun hat. Und da hab ich immer son gewissen Respekt vorgehabt, ja.\n\nWie war das für dich, Leo? Du hast Ach,\n\nSpeaker 1: schon, Moment, Du hast von 3 Stufen schon, oder? Ja, die letzte Gaming ganz oben nach.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, die Dritte ist natürlich Gaming, oder? Also ich\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Dritte ist natürlich Gaming, wenn man unter Gaming versteht, alles, was so im medizinischen Bereich ist, wo's vielleicht so Leben und Tod geht, ja. Wenn Du Firmware fürn Herzschrittmacher baust oder so was, das ist vielleicht auch ganz relevant. Aber das ist dann, glaub ich, noch mal eine ganz andere Kategorie. Aber also trotzdem, meine Frage war, Du hast eben schon erzählt, wie ihr son bisschen auf die Idee gekommen seid, aber trotzdem stell ich mir das als Entwickler schon noch mal als sonen größeren Sprung vor zu sagen, na ja, jetzt übernehm ich hier mit meiner Software Verantwortung für für Geld und Finanzplanung von anderen Menschen, die da auf mich angewiesen sind. War das Teil deiner Reflexion oder habt ihr einfach gesagt, oh, ist 'n geiles Produkt, da haben wir Lust drauf, das machen wir, das wird schon irgendwie funktionieren?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaub, es war von Anfang an, glaub ich, eine eine superschöne Herausforderung. Es macht unfassbar viel Spaß, damit zu arbeiten, einfach aus dem Grund, dass man auch sieht, dass sie in jeder Sekunde gerade Zahlungen stattfinden. Also das Ich find das 'n total verrücktes Gefühl persönlich, dass an jedem Ort dieser Welt man es eigentlich gerade ermöglicht, dass Kinder, Jugendliche, aber auch Erwachsene sozusagen überall auf dieser Welt grade bezahlen können. Natürlich macht man sich da einfach noch mal viel, viel stärker Gedanken dadrum, wie man bestimmte Services aufsplittet, wie man die vielleicht auf unterschiedliche AWS Regionen verteilt und so weiter und so fort. Da ist man natürlich schon schon schon macht man sich sehr, sehr viele Gedanken da dran, aber es ist schon ehrlicherweise alles lösbar und sehr gut lösbar meiner Meinung nach und ich ich liebe diese Herausforderung.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ihr habt, oder vielleicht eine, fangen wir alles drauf an.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du hast grad gesagt, ihr habt zusammen mit Neon dann quasi Bling angeschoben. Was war so der erste MVP, den ihr zur Tür rausgeschickt habt und wie habt ihr euch auf den geeinigt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das Thema ist natürlich, dass Du ja gleichzeitig, während Du die Entwicklung machst, in 'ner gewissen Form hast Du ja auch reguläre Themen, die sozusagen gleichzeitig losstarten. Also es bedeutet, Du hast ja bestimmte Prozesse, die Du implementieren musst und Du hast natürlich regulatorische Anforderungen zum Beispiel, die Du auch erfüllen musst. Und bei uns war dann am eher am Ende das Thema sozusagen, dass der regulatorische Prozess länger gedauert hat als der Entwicklungsprozess des MBPs in 'ner gewissen Form, was bedeutet, dass wir sozusagen schon mit 'nem sehr guten Funktionsumfang am Ende einfach live gehen konnten. Wir haben uns natürlich sehr stark auf das Taschengeld fokussiert. Mobilfunk und alles andere, was wir im Portfolio haben, gab es damals noch nicht.\n\nWir hatten schon Gedanken dazu, aber es waren natürlich noch ganz, ganz weit in der Zukunft. Aber natürlich konnte man bei uns die kompletten Kernprozesse abbilden, also die Karte bestellen, damit bezahlen, Limits einstellen, Sparbereich, auf unterschiedliche in in unterschiedlichen Sparbereichen Sparzielen, das Ganze anlegen und so weiter und so fort. Das gab es natürlich damals alles schon, aber bei uns war's dann am Ende der regulatorische Prozess, der sozusagen ein, 2 Monate länger gedauert hat und der der School live in 'ner gewissen Form bestimmt hat. Das ist natürlich bei euch zum Beispiel ganz anders. Wenn ihr eine App live bringt, dann seid ihr euer eigenes Hindernis, euer eigener Blocker in 'ner gewissen Form.\n\nDas bedeutet, ihr könnt sagen, wir bringen das raus und dann bringt ihr das raus. Und die App Entwicklung zum Beispiel im Gaming Bereich macht superviel Spaß, einfach aus dem Grund, dass man ein Team loslassen kann und das Team, den wir wahrscheinlich auf dem Weg, auf so wie ihr strukturiert seid wahrscheinlich, sehr wenige Blocker auf dem Weg auf den Weg kommen. Also das Team entwickelt und entwickelt, hat gewisse Freiheiten in den Frameworks, die ihr natürlich habt. Bei uns haben wir natürlich immer wieder liege- und Compliance Themen auf auf der Strecke. Wir haben Partner, mit denen wir bestimmte Sachen abstimmen müssen.\n\nEs ist teilweise noch eine sehr alte Industrie sozusagen, bestimmte Sachen lassen sich auf nur auf Umwege technisch lösen, weil die Schnittstellen nicht da sind und so weiter und so fort. Das bedeutet, mein Ziel ist es immer zu schauen, dass ich die Teams entblockiere. Ich bin in 'ner gewissen Form dafür da, dass es keine Blocker oder möglichst wenige Blocker auf der Strecke gibt und dass die Teams möglichst gut arbeiten können. Das bedeutet, oft sind es die Themen außen rum, die dann einen Launch zum Beispiel verschieben und weniger die eigentliche Entwicklungsleistung.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt habt ihr ja aber wahrscheinlich auch das Rad nicht komplett neu erfunden, weil ihr seid ja keine eigene Bank. Ich nehm an, ihr habt da 'n Dienstleister für, ja, der sich so was wie Kartenausgabe, Kontoführung und so weiter kümmert, mit dem ihr dann da zusammenarbeitet. Wie viel musstet ihr trotzdem an diesen ganzen Prozessen neu schaffen? Du hast eben grade schon son paar genannt, ne, aber auch einfach so was wie Kontoerstellungen, Karten ausgeben, Konto sperren lassen, bla. Also das sind ja alles Sachen, die, ich sag mal, die die im im im Finanzgeschäft eigentlich so sind, ja, aber die ja jeder für sich irgendwie doch wieder neu entwickeln muss wahrscheinlich.\n\nOder konntet ihr euch wirklich so voll und ganz auf die Featureentwicklung konzentrieren, wie hier Sparfunktion und so weiter, weil der ganze finanzielle Teil doch wirklich komplett schon abgedeckt ist mit bestehenden Backoffistools oder so was.\n\nSpeaker 2: Mhm. Also zum Start haben wir stärker sozusagen, also wir sind bei, die Bankkonten bei uns sozusagen liegen bei der Socity General. Also bedeutet, ist eine ist eine sehr, sehr 1 der größten französischen Banken, die die es gibt. Und da liegt sozusagen das Geld, wenn man sich das in der Form vorstellen will. Das bedeutet, wir sind grundsätzlich französisch und deutsch reguliert in 'ner gewissen Form.\n\nMit Europa sozusagen ist das möglich und genau, wir haben in Deutschland keine eigene Bankenlizenz, sondern die SourSu d'Aéqé de General hat sozusagen die Bankenlizenz entsprechend in Frankreich und ihre Sub Company, mit der arbeiten wir entsprechend zusammen. Am Anfang ist es so, dass wir große Teile oder so viel wie möglich versucht haben auszulagern. Mittlerweile ist es so, dass wir mehr und mehr Prozesse bei uns inkludieren. Also es bedeutet, dass wir zum Beispiel 'n Großteil von den Themen mittlerweile auch auf unserer Seite entsprechend abwickeln und tun, weil wir einfach gemerkt haben, dass wir damit versuchen, die externen Abhängigkeit in 'ner gewissen Form zu reduzieren. Das bedeutet, dass wir bestimmte Partner einbinden und so weiter und so fort, wenn das für uns möglich ist und direkt mit denen zusammenarbeiten, weil uns es einfach mehr Freiheiten gibt und halt eben diese Blocker in 'ner gewissen Form entsprechend removed.\n\nWir sind da natürlich unseren französischen Partnern sehr, sehr dankbar und das klappt auch klappt auch super, aber natürlich ist es so, dass wir versuchen mehr und mehr Prozesse, wo man am Anfang sehr, sehr stark Sachen ausgelagert hat, versucht man die halt über die Jahre viel stärker zu sich zu bringen und die Wertschöpfung auch von den tiefergehenden Banking Prozessen halt eben bei sich entsprechend zu haben. Also das bedeutet, wenn heute zum Beispiel eine Kartentransaktion stattfindet, dann entscheiden wir zum Beispiel innerhalb von einhundert Millisekunden, ob die Kartentransaktion durchgeht oder nicht durchgeht zum Beispiel. Das sind zum Beispiel so Prozesse, die waren früher beim Start von Bingen waren die bei unserem Partner. Mittlerweile sind diese Prozesse bei uns. Also es bedeutet, ja, bei uns kommt der API Request rein, wir machen unsere Logiken und entscheiden dann, okay, wir lassen das durch oder wir lassen die Kartentransaktion halt eben nicht durch, wenn eine Person grade am Terminal steht und ganz dringend bezahlen will.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt, ich ich muss mir das so vorstellen, dass diese ganzen Features wie jetzt eine Prüfung von den Transaktionen oder weiß ich nicht, Sperrung von der Karte, das kann ich als Dienstleistung bei meinem Partner buchen oder ich kann es selbst implementieren und ihr seid dann quasi im Laufe der Zeit immer mehr von dem einen Spektrum zum anderen gewandert?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, richtig. Also wir haben immer stärker gesagt, dass wir die Sachen gerne bei uns haben möchten, weil wir da natürlich auch eine höhere Flexibilität haben und die Abhängigkeiten reduzieren. Dass wir versuchen, da, wo wir die Abhängigkeiten brauchen, haben wir sie und da, wo wir sie nicht zwingend brauchen, versuchen wir halt das entsprechend bei uns zu lösen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Darfst Du den Hauptgrund nennen, warum ihr euch für die Society General entschieden habt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Es gibt gar nicht so viele Player, die das die das ehrlicherweise machen. Das bedeutet, es gibt Swan zum Beispiel noch, die das in Frankreich zum Beispiel machen. Es gibt die Solaris Bank in Deutschland, die das entsprechend noch macht und es gibt noch ein, 2 andere, die das machen. Für uns war damals die Entscheidung gewesen, dass für uns die Treasor, das ist der Partner, den wir haben, die Sub Company sozusagen von der SoCity General, auf unseren Use Case und unsere Anforderungen am eingehen konnte. Also da ist das höchste Maß an und auch eigenen Projekten, die man bei dem Partner aufmachen kann.\n\nAlso das bedeutet, wir können 'n Projekt bei der Partner öffnen und dann findet auf der Seite auch Custom Implementierung für uns entsprechend statt. Das ist da halt eben komplett möglich und bei den anderen Anbietern ist es halt eben einfach so, dass da teilweise unflexibler das Pricing sehr, sehr teuer ist, dass es schwierig ist, da 'n profitables Geschäftsmodell drauf aufzubauen und manche natürlich auch sehr stark extern finanziert sind. Und das ist natürlich bei 'nem Partner wie der Socity General ist das einen jahrhunderteralter Partner, der der sehr sehr stabil ist und auch nicht auf externe Finanzierungsrunden angewiesen ist. Das waren son bisschen die Gründe, warum wir uns damals dafür entschieden haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Du sprichst da 'n coolen Punkt an, die die Fremdfinanzierung und oder das Vertrauen, den man da in sonen Partner haben muss. Euch geht es ja im Prinzip vis-à-vis euren Kunden nicht anders, ne. Also ihr seid ein neuer Player oder ein junger Player, sagen wir mal, vielleicht so an dem Markt. Und wenn jetzt die Eltern da draußen überlegen, ob sie dem Kind, weiß nicht, die erste Bezahlkarte bei der heimischen Sparkasse oder so was einrichten oder eben bei euch, seid ihr bestimmt, was das Featuret angeht, da deutlich attraktiver, aber eben noch nicht so etabliert. Wie war das für euch insbesondere am Anfang, die ersten Kunden von euch dem Konzept und der App zu überzeugen, ohne einen Track Record zu haben im Prinzip?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist eine sehr gute Frage. Es hat, also wenn ich mir die Wachstumszahlen anschaue von damals, ist das eine, der hat mir natürlich son bisschen so Warteliste, von der haben wir nach dem Launch in 'ner gewissen Formsidee gewachsen und dann hat es sich sehr stark selbst verbreitet, weil es halt eben insgesamt nur sehr wenige oder in Deutschland gibt es aktuell kein zweites Spling in dieser Form, was was das abbilden kann. Das bedeutet, das ist auch unser großer Vorteil, dass es keinen weiteren Player gibt. Ich kann natürlich ganz normal zu den klassischen Banken und das öffnen. Ich muss vor Ort hingehen, muss mit beiden meinen Eltern teilen dahin, das da zu öffnen.\n\nDann habe ich möglicherweise gar keine habe ich möglicherweise gar keine Visa oder Mastercard entsprechend, sondern nur eine EC Karte, kann die nicht online einsetzen und so weiter und so fort. Ist natürlich son bisschen abhängig von Bank zu Bank, aber das war ein Angebot, wo wir gemerkt haben, dass der Product Market fit super da ist. Also das war wirklich 'n Thema gewesen, wenn man son bisschen Start ups hat und hat das Gefühl, okay, findet man den Product Market fit, funktioniert Man ist einfach in eine Zielgruppe reingestoßen, direkt am Anfang von Leuten, die genau nach so was gesucht haben. Digitales Banking für für für Kinder und Jugendliche, für die Familie, das eben alles vereinen zu können. Das möglichst einfach in Echtzeit aufladen, mit der Man kann mit der eigenen Kreditkarte in Echtzeit aufladen.\n\nMan kann das Geld hin- und her transferieren innerhalb der Familie. Man kann das Taschengeld planen. Man hat den Sparbereich. Man hat all diese ganzen Funktionen und wir sind ja ein bezahltes Produkt, also es gibt ja kein kostenloses Blining in 'ner gewissen Form, dass wir einfach gemerkt haben, dass der Product Marketit da ist und dass die Leute einfach Lust da drauf haben, das halt eben zu nutzen. Des Weiteren ist es ja so, dass wir allgemein mit den Kundengeldern in 'ner gewissen Form wie das jetzt eine Bank macht, die das irgendwo anliegt oder investiert.\n\nEs ist ja bei uns so, dass wir das Geld, was die Kunden entsprechend einzahlen, ist auch zu jeder Zeit da. Also es ist ja nicht in irgend 'ner Form, wie es vielleicht im normalen BR Bankengeschäft halt nötig ist, indem Kredite ausgegeben werden und so weiter und so fort, man halt die mit dem mit den Kundengeldern arbeitet, wird ja bei Bling nicht mit den Kundengeldern gearbeitet. Also das bedeutet, wenn ich 100 Euro überweise, dann sind die 100 Euro zu jedem Zeitpunkt immer entsprechend natürlich da. Das ist natürlich auch noch mal 'n großer Unterschied. Das bedeutet, die Sorge, dass sollte irgendetwas passieren, die gibt das halt sozusagen in der Form gar nicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Das heißt, im Umkehrschluss aber auch, dass euer einziger Revenuestream die monatliche Gebühr für die Konten ist, weil eben nicht mit dem Geld arbeitet?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau. Also es ist natürlich, es ist eine ganze das allgemein das Modell ist der Großteil sozusagen der Gebühren, die wir bekommen, ist zum Beispiel durch die Mobilfunkpläne, die wir haben, durch die Taschengeldprodukte, also die was Kunden aktiv für die Nutzung der Services in der Form natürlich zahlen. Sonst gibt es natürlich noch ganz viele andere Gebührenstrukturen, zum Beispiel Mastercard und Visa, vielleicht kennt ihr das selbst, haben gewisse Händlergebühren, dann gibt es 'n bestimmten Interchange, den man in 'ner gewissen Form zurück Stimmt, ja. Erstattet bekommt vom Zahlungsvolumen und so weiter und so fort. Das bedeutet insgesamt, es ist 'n sehr komplexes Kostenmodell, aber auch die Einnahmen sozusagen splitten sich auf relativ viele Streams auf.\n\nEs ist aber so, dass die die Gebühren oder die die Subscription Fees, die wir entsprechend erfassen, das natürlich den Großteil unseres Umsatzes ausmacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Jetzt hast Du ja grade schon angesprochen, was ihr alles neben der Bezahlkarte noch macht mit Mobilfunk, mit Sparanlage, Nachhilfe hab ich gesehen, gibt's auch so, ja. Wie schaut ihr euch das an und wie überlegt ihr euch so, also wann wann strecken wir uns vielleicht auch 'n bisschen zu dünn oder zu sehr? Weil das ja schon son sehr diverses Portfolio, was ihr da versucht abzudecken, ja. Wenn ich jetzt überlege, ihr ihr ihr kommt aus dem klassischen App bauen und jetzt seid ihr in 1 vielleicht für euch erst mal sehr fremden Domäne und sobald ihr euch da anfangt wohlzufühlen, streckt ihr euch da immer weiter. Wie wie trefft ihr da so Entscheidungen, was ihr macht und was ihr nicht macht?\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist 'n sehr, sehr guter Punkt. Was wir natürlich machen, ist, dass wir sagen, Familien haben eine ganze Reihe von Problemen und wir versuchen Lösungen für die Probleme von Familien.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich kann euch, glaub ich, so unterschreiben.\n\nSpeaker 2: So, das ist das, was wir in 'ner gewissen Form versuchen und das ist unser Ziel. Wir bauen Lösungen für Familien, für die Probleme der Familien und das ist natürlich eine ganze Bandbreite von Produkten und da hat man natürlich in 'ner gewissen Form Die Wir haben natürlich ganz klar die Super App Strategie, die in in der Form natürlich da ist und wie treffen wir da Entscheidungen? Also wir schauen uns an, okay, was sind neue Bereiche? Was kann für uns spannend sein? Wir haben uns natürlich jetzt zum Beispiel den Bereich des der der Schulmensa zum Beispiel ausgesucht und haben halt eben festgestellt, da sind sehr klassische traditionelle Player in dem Bereich.\n\nDie Kunden, wenn man sich die App Store Bewertungen der jeweiligen Player an dem Markt anschaut, sind sehr, sehr schlecht. Also die Eltern sind sehr unzufrieden mit dem Produkt. Gleichzeitig wissen wir, dass wir eine Bankinginfrastruktur haben, die die Grundlagen für son System stellen kann, also mit dem Auszahlen der Caterer, mit dem Einzahlen der Eltern, mit dem Bezahlen der Essen und denken, okay, das ist 'n Bereich, der spannend ist mit unserer Kompetenz und unserem Wissen, was wir über die letzten Jahre erlangt haben. Können wir da eine gute Lösung für Familien entsprechend schaffen? Und dann sagen, dann geben wir das natürlich innerhalb des Teams.\n\nDas Financeteam rechnet das aus. Productmanagement kommt dazu, was bei uns sehr, sehr technisch ist. Nils und ich machen uns unsere Gedankenmarketing, alle Abteilungen kommen zusammen. Dann überlegen wir uns, okay, macht das Sinn? Und dann entwickeln wir halt eben eine Strategie und versuchen dann son Speed Boot losstarten zu lassen, da halt 'n ersten NVP zu entwickeln.\n\nDas bedeutet, wir verkaufen das Produkt erst mal, schauen, sind Schulen überhaupt an unserem Produkt interessiert? Dann entwickeln wir das parallel entsprechend mit 'nem kleinen Speed Boot, was ausgelagert ist. Das muss nicht an unseren normalen Dailys teilnehmen. Das muss nicht in die normalen Produktprozesse rein. Das ist son bisschen Start-up im Start-up und das baut dann entsprechend das Produkt.\n\nDann bringen wir das an einen gewissen Punkt. Und zu jeder Zeit könnten wir auch sagen, okay, das macht vielleicht doch keinen Sinn mehr. Wir stoppen das jetzt an der Stelle. Aber wir sind für uns als Bling ist es immer wichtig, dass wir das bestehende Produkt verbessern, aber nicht in son Maintenance Mode verfallen, sondern immer wieder neue Sachen schaffen, uns neue Sachen überlegen und schauen, wo können wir irgendwie 'n Value Ad für Familien liefern.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dieser Speedboard Ansatz, wie Du gerade beschrieben hast, ist ja ganz interessant. Wie macht ihr das staffing mäßig? Also wenn ihr jetzt son neues Feld quasi identifiziert habt und sagt, okay, da da wollen wir mal was was bauen, uns was angucken, 'n kleinen MVP zurechtschustern, Wildert ihr dann in den bestehenden Productteams und sagt, okay, wir brauchen mal hier 'n Designer, wir brauchen hier 'n Entwickler, wir brauchen hier jemanden, der uns eine Datenbank zusammenschrauben kann. Stellt ihr da neue Leute für ein? Wie wie passiert das?\n\nSpeaker 2: Insgesamt bei Bling ist es so, dass in 'nem Productteam bei uns sind 16 Personen. Wir haben es aktuell\n\nSpeaker 0: Sorry, in in einem Productteam oder Nee,\n\nSpeaker 2: also im Produktteam. Genau und jetzt kommt das Ding, unser Productteam sind 16 Personen und jetzt kommt, glaub ich, das Spannende, dass wir nicht diesen Split haben, vielleicht wie andere in Domain, wo es heißt, okay, die Personen sind nur für Produkt x y zuständig oder die Personen sind nur für das Onboarding zuständig oder für Subscription Billing oder Payment. Bei uns ist es so, dass wir Projekte haben, die gemeinsam auf der Roadnapp geplant werden und wir stellen die Teams dynamisch für die Projekte zusammen. Also das bedeutet, es kann sein, dass Du mit anderen Teammitgliedern mal 3 Monate an dem Projekt arbeitest und danach zum Beispiel nach eineinhalb Monaten auf 'n anderes Projekt wechselt. Das bedeutet, wir haben sehr stark dieses Projektdenken.\n\nBei uns ist es auch so, dass wir in wöchentlichen Cycles arbeiten. Wir ich versuche, ist natürlich immer sone Frage der Stage und für uns macht dieses Set-up im Moment aktuell supersinn, weil wir relativ geringen Overhead haben und damit sehr, sehr viel Output schaffen. Natürlich, wenn man jetzt 'n Unternehmen hat, wo man 200, 300, 400 Developer hat, dann hat man natürlich 'n ganz anderes. Deswegen ist es auch die Rolle des CTOs, CTOs entwickelt sich ja auch abhängig von der Stage, in der man grundsätzlich ist. Und bei uns ist es halt eben so, dass wir diese Projektteams haben, die wir zusammenstellen und bei uns haben wir jetzt eine Kombination aus internen Mitarbeitern, wie ich vorhin schon gesagt hab.\n\nVon E. ON unterstützen uns netterweise Leute und die arbeiten zusammen an dem Projekt und sind auch ihr eigenes Produktmanagement, ihr eigenes Design, ihr eigenes Frontend, ihr eigenes Backend Entwicklung. Dieses Team ist voll funktionsfähig in 'ner gewissen Form und hat halt jetzt den Vorteil, dass es aus den kompletten normalen Meetingstrukturen raus ist, halt eben komplett frei nur an diesem spezifischen Thema arbeiten zu können.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie timet ihr denn diese Projektarbeit? Weil das, ich hab den Ansatz schon 'n paarmal gesehen und in der Praxis ist der immer auf die Schnauze gefallen, weil unterschiedliche Projekt Streams nicht gleichzeitig fertig werden und dann quasi die Besetzung für die nächsten Projekte teilweise schon frei sind, teilweise noch nicht, weil ihr Altersprojekt sich verzögert und dann Leute in son Leerlauf geraten. Schafft ihr das oder habt ihr da auch schon mal Probleme mit gehabt?\n\nSpeaker 1: Vielleicht kannst Du vorher, bevor Du die Frage antwortest, noch ganz kurz, weil Du sagtest 16 in dem Produktteam, nur ganz kurz aufsplitten, wie viele da aus welchem Bereich ungefähr sind. Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau. Also bei uns ist es so, dass wir 2 Personen Product Management haben, einen Head of Product Tuben und Tobias, die Product Management zusammen machen. Dann haben wir eine Person im Design, dann haben wir und der Rest ist sozusagen Frontend und Backend fifty fifty Split entsprechend.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und da ist dann jeweils ein Lead. Also es gibt ein Backend Lead und es gibt ein Frontend Lead entsprechend. Das ist son bisschen die Aufteilung und unser Productmanagement grundsätzlich ist sehr technisch gehalten. Also es bedeutet, unser Productmanagement ist auch in der Code Base unterwegs. Es entwickelt nichts.\n\nAlso es gab es gibt keine Commits, aber die sind schon unterwegs und schauen sich bestimmte Sachen an, schauen oft durch die Commits durch und so weiter und so fort. Das ist uns einfach sehr wichtig, dass auch Datenstrukturen verstanden werden, die die Querys selbst schreiben können. Das ist son bisschen das Konzept-up.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm. Und dann? Genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Frage nach dem Projekt zu Frage nach\n\nSpeaker 1: dem, wann Projekte zu Ende sind und wie man sich wieder zusammenfindet.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, das ist natürlich immer eine Herausforderung, weil ich glaub, ihr ihr wisst das genauso wie ich, also es verzögert sich immer etwas. Also es ist ja es ist selten möglich, egal wie gut man wie gut man plant oder wie gut man schätzt, auch wenn man jeden einbezieht. Es gibt immer wieder Verzögerung und Überraschungen. Wir lösen das so, dass wir immer eine quartalsweise Planung machen. Also das bedeutet, wir machen keine Jahresplanung klassisch, sondern wir planen immer das nächste Quartal und Ende der Woche sitzt immer sitzen die beiden Leads und das Produktmanagement zusammen.\n\nDie haben immer freitags 'n Meeting und da besprechen die die aktuelle Woche nach. Was hat gut geklappt, was hat weniger gut geklappt Und dann planen sie auch die nächste Woche. Also es bedeutet dadurch, dass wir diese Weekly Cycles haben und auch sehr dynamisch in der Priorisierung sind, ist es so, dass die das gemeinsam zusammen planen und dann möglicherweise Umstellung vornehmen. Und es ist immer so, dass wir son bisschen Projekte und on on holt haben. Also es bedeutet, es gibt Projekte, die sind komplett konzeptioniert, designt, alles fertig und wenn es jetzt Verzögerungen gibt in 'nem gewissen Projekt, zum Beispiel das Backend braucht länger, dann kann sich das Frontend einfach 'n Projekt aus den auf on on the shelf son bisschen aus dem Hochregal schnappen und kann das dann zum Beispiel umsetzen und sagen, okay, wir passen jetzt mal die Cachingstrategie in der App an oder wir verbessern die App Startzeit oder wir wollten schon immer mal x y umstellen.\n\nWir wollen gerne das Designsystem besser abbilden. Also da gibt's ja ganz, ganz viele Ideen und Themen und dann nehmen wir uns die sozusagen aus dem Buchregal raus und deswegen gibt es diese Leerlaufphasen niemals. Also ist noch nie vorgekommen sozusagen. Genau. Und das\n\nSpeaker 1: Also die sind dann aber Also wenn wir jetzt den Frontend Timer nehmen mit dem Frontend Lead, die können dann zum Beispiel sich 2 solche Tasks irgendwie raussuchen für eine Woche oder arbeiten immer alle auf einem.\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, es ist immer es ist immer komplett gesittet. Also es sind immer 3, 4 Product Streams sozusagen, die gleichzeitig laufen. Und das ist natürlich auch immer die größte Herausforderung, die immer passend zu entblockieren und zu schauen, dass die Ja. Das Move durchlaufen und so weiter und so fort. Aber wir haben immer 4 Streams ungefähr, die parallel sozusagen angeschoben werden und dann gibt es mal mal einem vielleicht mal 'n Hick-up und dann kann man sich off the shelf son son Projekt nehmen und das halt eben entsprechend reinschieben.\n\nGenau und die eigenen Teams haben wir auch immer Ideen, wo sie sagen, okay, hier wollen wir gerne mal das refactern oder hier wollen wir x y mal machen und dann sitzt das perfekt. Wenn man 1, 2 Tage vielleicht auf was anderes wartet, dann kann man diese Themen perfekt einfach reinschieben, die man vielleicht schon mal das letzte halbe Jahr machen wollte, die aber keine gigantische Priorität jetzt hatten.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und als\n\nSpeaker 1: Du grade Team sagtest, war das dann zum Beispiel das Frontend Team?\n\nSpeaker 2: Zum Beispiel das Frontend Team oder das Backend Team. Genau, also es ist so, Frontend Team und Backend Team geht's gemeinsam an Projekten. Die sitzen auch alle sozusagen hier auf der Wir sind ja sehr, sehr stark im Office. Die sitzen hier auch genau durch die Klarscheine hierdurch einmal auf der anderen Seite direkt alles zusammen. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und hab ich dich eben richtig verstanden, dass das Projekt mit der Mensa, was jetzt rauskommt, dass das dann komplett von 'nem externen Team gemacht wird oder unterstützen die jetzt das große dicken Teams?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, es ist sozusagen gemischt. Also der das ist sozusagen gemischtes Team und zum Beispiel in dem Mensa Projekt bin ich jetzt zum Beispiel auch wieder sehr stark involviert.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mhm.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und auch Niels ist zum Beispiel sehr stark in dem Projekt involviert. Also das machen wir wirklich projektbasiert in der Form. Das bedeutet, wir haben eine Person von von Neon, die unterstützen, die wir schon sehr, sehr gut kennen, die 300 Meter Luftlinie von uns entfernt sozusagen sind, die dann einfach herkommen können. Und Leute bei uns aus dem Team und dann arbeiten die zusammen. Wenn es halt eben mal so gewisse Peaks gibt oder viele Leute fallen aus, weil sie vielleicht krank sind und so weiter und so fort, da kann man halt eben da entsprechend ergänzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kommen wir von der Planung der Projekte hin zu der Implementierung. Und ich stell mir vor, dass ihr für all diese ganzen Themenbereiche, die ihr abbildet, ja nicht nur mit einem Partner für Finanzen zusammenarbeiten müsst, sondern wenn ihr, weiß nicht, Mobilfunkverträge macht, da gibt's bestimmt auch 'n Anbieter hinten dran. Wenn ihr jetzt Nachhilfe macht, dann gibt es da bestimmt auch 'n Dienst. Ich gehe nicht davon aus, dass ihr jetzt irgendwie 10000 Nachhilfelehrer eingestellt habt. Und wenn ihr an die Schulen gehen wollt, dann braucht ihr zumindest jemanden, der auch so was wie Accountmanagement im Prinzip betreibt für die für die Schulen oder die, also die Verwaltung von den Schulen zumindest.\n\nWas ist technisch gesehen euer größeres Problem? Die technische Integration und Schnittstellenanbindung von diesen ganzen Partnern oder die Abbildung in UI und GX von diesen doch sehr unterschiedlichen Prozessen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube, es ist beides gleich an anspruchsvoll. Also wenn wir zum Beispiel schauen, das Mobilfunkprodukt zum Beispiel, da arbeiten wir mit der Telekom da weg zusammen. Das bedeutet, wir sind da in die Telekom Systeme integriert, da entsprechend die Sachen zu ermöglichen für Depot Lösungen. Zum Beispiel haben wir die BNP Pariber zum Beispiel. Also da haben wir die unterschiedlichsten Partner und manche Schnittstellen sind sehr, sehr schön und andere sind schwieriger, sag ich mal so.\n\nAber ich glaube, sowohl die UI Übersetzung als auch die Schnittstellenanbindung. Es ist alles schon sehr, sehr gut machbar, aber ich würde jetzt nicht sagen, das eine ist schwieriger persönlicher als das andere. Ich glaub, hat alles so bisschen seine Herausforderung. Die Herausforderung ist natürlich auch immer, die Systeme richtig zu monitoren und so weiter und so fort und festzustellen, weil da gibt es möglicherweise keine klassischen Health End Punkte, die man einfach triggern kann, sondern man muss halt oder die Partner selbst haben teilweise kein eigenes Monitoring. Das bedeutet auf Ihr\n\nSpeaker 0: seid das Monitoring.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau und deswegen haben wir halt 'n extrem großes Monitoring Set-up sozusagen und wir monitoren halt eben, also wir gehen immer davon aus, dass unser also gefühlt, also ist in der Realität noch nicht so, aber wir denken, so wie wir Themen angehen, dass unser Partner nichts monitort und deswegen monitoren wir sozusagen alles. Natürlich monitort der Partner, aber wir monitoren bei uns auf unserer Seite komplett doppelt. Das bedeutet, wenn es irgendwelche Themen\n\nSpeaker 0: gibt, Ausfälle, Probleme, Sachen, die nicht so funktionieren, wie\n\nSpeaker 2: sie sollten, die nicht unpredicted, Arpichanges, die nicht abgesprochen waren, solche Themen, dann dann wird das bei uns natürlich gibt's direkt entsprechende Alerts und wir können auf die Partner zugehen und das direkt ansprechen und lösen. Und haben auch für alles so Fallbackmodes. Also wenn etwas nicht funktioniert, dann haben wir immer einen Fallback sozusagen und auch von den App UI Screens sozusagen gibt es dann immer bestimmte Screens, die halt eben dann, sollte sollten bestimmte Teilfunktionen mal nicht gehen, dann eben einbinden. Weil man muss auch überlegen, auch in dem kompletten Payment Bereich, da gibt's ja Card Ishering, Card Aquiring, Du hast den Kartenversand, Du hast Payment Processor da sozusagen mit drin. Also Du hast da eine ganze Reihe von von von von von Dienstleistern in 'ner gewissen Form, die bestimmte Teilbereiche eben abbilden im im Finanzsektor.\n\nDu hast 'n Partner, SEPA Transaktionen zu starten. Man hat Themen wie SEPA Instant. All diese ganzen Themen müssen irgendwie abgebildet werden Und da muss man ja schauen, funktioniert jedes dieser Module auf so, wie es soll grade? Und das dieses Monitoring ist, glaub ich, der Aufwand, das Anbinden und das in UI Screens übersetzen, glaub ich, hält sich in Tanzen.\n\nSpeaker 0: Wie geht ihr bei der Partnerwahl vor? Wenn ihr euch jetzt für einen Partner entschieden habt für, so bleiben wir mal bei der Telekom, für ein Mobilfunkangebot und ihr arbeitet dann an der Integration, Wie generisch baut ihr sone Integration im Sinne von, na ja, vielleicht wollen wir das in Zukunft auch über Telefonica abwickeln oder irgendjemand anderen, ja, und sind da im Prinzip schon drauf vorbereitet? Oder seid ihr da eher auf der Seite von, das ist irgendwie und da wollen wir eher nicht rein investieren? Wir haben jetzt hier 'n Partner, mit dem sind wir glücklich und auf den bauen wir jetzt auch erst mal. Wie wie findet ihr da das richtige Verhältnis?\n\nSpeaker 2: Bei uns ist es oft so, dass wir, wie wir bestimmte Themen angehen, auch wenn wir zum Beispiel uns Refaktorings zum Beispiel anschauen, vielleicht komm ich über den Engel. Es ist normalerweise so, wenn wir sagen, okay, wir haben Teilbereiche der Codebase, wir haben Erfahrungen gesammelt und sagen, okay, wir wollen das gerne auf den neuesten Development Standard anpassen, refactern, dann ist das immer in der Kombination damit, dass wir das Feature teilweise neu designen und auch komplett neu bauen. Also das bedeutet, wir machen nie klassische Coderefektors, die auf den keinen Impact haben, sondern wir sagen zum Beispiel, okay, der Taschengeldplaner soll refactored werden. Dann wird der neu designt, es wird das komplette Nutzerfeedback eingearbeitet und der wird komplett neu gebaut. Und so gehen wir Refacturings im Allgemeinen an und jetzt sozusagen auf den Partnergeschichte reinzugehen.\n\nWir versuchen es schon so allgemein wie möglich zu halten. Es ist aber nicht immer möglich, weil jeder Partner dann schon bestimmte Spezifika und so weiter hat, auf die man einfach eingehen muss. Und oft ist es ja auch so, dass man langjährige Verträge entsprechend abschließt. Das bedeutet, es ist jetzt nicht so zum Beispiel bei Payment Gateways bei uns, also wenn man klassische Payment Gateways hat, damit Subscription Zahlungen zu machen, die können wir von heute auf morgen kann können wir jeden Anbieter anschließen, den wir wollen. Das ist sehr, sehr generlich.\n\nDas ist 'n Partner, da hat man andere Pricing Konditionen oder andere Themen und dann sagt man, okay, den stellt man ganz einfach Bei unseren Kernpartnern, die sind aber schon sehr stark integriert, da haben wir schon Sachen abstrahiert, aber es geht immer nur bis zu 'nem gewissen Punkt. Da müsste man oder da würde man nicht schon, wenn man einen neuen Partner hätte, würde man schon Teilbereiche auf jeden Fall neu bauen. Das ist aber unser Ziel, weil wir in der Zeit auch so viel gelernt haben, dass wir wahrscheinlich sagen, damals, als wir 'n bestimmtes bestimmte Funktion entwickelt haben, würden wir's anders machen oder andere andere Sachen einfach noch mitdenken. Genau und deswegen versuchen wir, die Sachen einfach zu halten und leicht austauschbar zu machen, aber es gibt Teilbereiche, da sind Sachen viel, viel leichter austauschbar, weil wir wissen, dass wir's sehr oft machen und bei anderen halt eben weniger.\n\nSpeaker 0: Habt ihr schon mal euer Paymentpartner gewechselt?\n\nSpeaker 2: Für Payment Gateway? Ja. Ja, wir haben halt ganz viele neue Payment Gateways dazugenommen. Also wir sind damals sozusagen, sind wir sozusagen mit Stripe gestartet, hatten damals nur Kartenzahlungen. Dann haben wir sehr stark Paypal mit dazugenommen.\n\nDann haben wir Lastschrift sozusagen dazu genommen und\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber ihr habt jetzt nicht zum Beispiel, weiß nicht, Kreditkartenbelägen schon mal von Stripe zu Pay One oder so was migriert?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na, aktuell, also es ist es gibt 'n es gibt sozusagen 'n Projekt, was was da und und holt gerade aktuell ist, ist perspektivisch werden wird das, werden die Payment Gateways sozusagen zentralisiert in 'ner gewissen Form. Super. Ja, wünsch mich mal an,\n\nSpeaker 0: wenn Du das gemacht hast.\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, bei uns ist natürlich immer so bisschen das Thema, wir haben sozusagen von der Billing Engine, wir haben sozusagen das Subscription billigen nicht über die Subscription Engine, das Stripe, zum Beispiel gelöst. Also bedeutet, wir haben zum Beispiel Chargespiel genommen und mit Chargespiel sozusagen haben wir die Flexibilität, jedes Payment Gateway anzubinden. Das bedeutet, die Billing Logik ist bei uns nicht an das Payment Gateway gebunden. Und wir haben natürlich den großen Vorteil, dass wir ja interne Transfers machen können. Also das bedeutet, wir haben unsere erste Zahlungsmethode ist immer der Guthabenstand des Nutzers, von dem wir das Geld ja ohne irgendwelche payment Fees transferieren können.\n\nDas bedeutet, wir können das Geld direkt von aus dem aus dem blingen Guthaben des Nutzers einziehen und dann sekundär belasten wir dann eigentlich nur die unterschiedlichen payment Gateways. Also wir gehen immer über den internen Transfer und senken der als Fallback Methode haben wir dann klassische Payment Gateways, die wir entsprechend angebunden haben, die wir jetzt zukünftig zentralisieren werden. Da werden wir alle austauschen, aber der Vorteil ist, dass wir die Billing Engine gleich ist und wir haben letztes Jahr die komplette Billing Engine ausgetauscht und das war schon schmerzhaft. Also das waren viele, viele Nachtschichten, wo wir die die kompletten Billing Daten zu migrieren und die ganzen, also das war wirklich die die die Hölle, aber ich bin froh, dass wir das letztes Jahr gemacht haben, halt eben für die Zukunft besser aufgestellt zu sein.\n\nSpeaker 0: Als jemand, der auch schon mal vor der Aufgabe stand, Kreditkartenautorisierungen zu müssen, versteh ich deinen Schmerz.\n\nSpeaker 2: Wann macht ihr das bei euch? Ihr habt ja natürlich viel Inapurtources bei euch.\n\nSpeaker 0: Also oder hier müsste, hier muss ich das nicht machen, hier müsst ihr das auch nie mehr anfassen so, ja.\n\nSpeaker 2: Habt ihr das selbst implementiert bei euch oder habt ihr das über Revenue Cat zum Beispiel gelöst? Also über Anbieter in vergleichbar?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, wir also wir brauchen in dem Sinne gar nichts. Moment. Wir lassen's über den App Store und den Store laufen. Ist das denn Ja,\n\nSpeaker 2: genau, genau. Bei Innerfälge ist das sozusagen. Ja. Ich wollte nur Aber\n\nSpeaker 1: da haben wir nicht noch mal, nee, wir haben da kein direkt, das ist ja, nicht so Okay. Noch mal als Anbieter dazwischen, sondern einfach direkt mit der Anbindung. Okay.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, macht ihr auch, also bei eurem Volumen sozusagen macht das, ist das wahrscheinlich auch die einzig sinnvolle Lösung entsprechend, genau.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja. Ja. Ja und wahrscheinlich auch vor allen Dingen bei der Historie. Also ich kann mir vorstellen, dass jemand Dates heute anfängt, wo's eben so Player wie Revenue Cat und so was gibt. Ist das vielleicht eine reellere Option?\n\nWohingegen zu, wenn man jetzt hier 15 Jahre Historie mitnimmt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ich muss ja gerade erst mal googeln Google und oder in App Subscription made easy. Ah, okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, die sind so Strip Strip sozusagen, ne.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, genau, die sind so bisschen, also viele, also die grade Personen, die neue Apps rausbringen mit In Appources setzen immer sehr stark auf auf Revenue Cat und deshalb auch eine sehr gute Flotte Integration sozusagen. Genau. Aber man gibt natürlich noch mal Extragebühren ne. Also das ist natürlich, kann man natürlich bei 'nem gewissen Volumen verhandeln wie immer, aber das ist natürlich der einfachste Weg, weil ich weiß noch damals, als ich Inderpources implementiert habe, da gibt's halt immer den ein oder anderen Edge Case, den man da handeln muss beim Blaystore und beim App Store und das war dann schon immer auch schmerzhaft damals gewesen. Genau.\n\nAber deswegen hat mich jetzt einfach nur mal eine eine, ihr stellt mir ja so viele Fragen, hat mich jetzt einfach nur\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, das\n\nSpeaker 2: war passiert. Also deswegen, ich find's ja immer eine Sache, die wollte ich unbedingt sagen. Es ist halt immer, ihr macht ja seit Jahren die Podcasts, ihr macht eure News Folgen, ihr macht all die ganzen Themen und ich find's absolut genial, aber eigentlich hat euch noch nie so richtig jemand interviewt und mal geschaut, wie macht ihr das eigentlich bei Lotum? Wie sehen eure Prozesse eigentlich aus? Wie welches wie löst ihr das?\n\nNatürlich kennt man eure Technologien, aber ihr fragt immer in die eine Richtung, aber eigentlich will man natürlich auch mal 'n bisschen mehr über Lotum erfahren und was sind was ist da vielleicht das Playbook, neue Apps zu entwickeln und die weltweit rauszubringen, ja? Das wär natürlich auch irgendwann noch mal eine spannende Folge.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hausaufgabe für 20 26. Müssen wir mal gucken, wie wir das denn Format gießen und\n\nSpeaker 1: vielleicht bietet sich Leon als Moderator an.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, sehr gerne. Ich komm mit Bad Nachher und komm mich mal in Person vorbei und schau mir das mal an, weil ich find's superspannend, was ihr macht und der genau, würd mich natürlich auch mal interessieren, was da eure principals sind.\n\nSpeaker 1: Sehr gut. Ich hab auch gerade noch, also Revenucat hat als Subteil ihrer Webseite in App subscription made easy. Da macht dann auch noch mal 'n bisschen mehr Sinn. Also ich glaub, weil das Management ist dann tatsächlich Ja, also wenn Du Wir hatten ja\n\nSpeaker 0: Die Dokuarkungs, Du hast es schon ganz schlank eigentlich.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, ja, genau. Aber wir haben ja selten bis gar nicht gemacht, was ja dann dann, glaube ich, einfach noch mal 'n Thema ist, weil Du das aufheben musst und verwalten musst und Migration tun und keine Ahnung was. Und das ist dann bei nur Käufen in Anführungsstrichen natürlich noch mal einfacher, wenn Du Weg Wegwerfkäufe hast.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und vor allen Dingen, ich wollt grad sagen, bei unseren Wegbackverkäufen oder Consumer Bekäufen halt auch wohl in 3 Monaten komplett egal ist, ob Du mal 'n paar Münzen gekauft hast oder nicht.\n\nSpeaker 2: Bei Subscriptions muss man die halt immer wiederherstellen können. Man muss sozusagen natürlich den den State auch backendseitig in 'ner gewissen Form pflegen können, montainen können und so weiter und so fort. Da sind natürlich Sole Lösungen hilfreich, aber auf 'nem gewissen Volumen und Umsatz macht es wahrscheinlich auch Sinn, da eine eigene Lösung zu haben, da einfach keinen kein keine keine Vieh abgeben zu müssen sozusagen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Als ihr angefangen habt mit Bling, wie sah damals eure Vision aus? Also war das dieses Organisieren des Taschengeldes oder war wirklich auch schon diese Vision, wir wollen all diese verschiedenen Themen, die es dort gibt, an anpacken?\n\nSpeaker 2: Nee, wir sind komplett über den Taschengeldansatz damals gekommen und das war auch die Vision und das war auch, sage ich mal, die höchste Priorität und dann hat sich das über die Jahre einfach so weiterentwickelt, dass wir uns da verbreitert haben. Aber zum Start war es ganz klar, lasst uns dieses Taschengeldprodukt für Familien bauen. Lass uns das ermöglichen, dass Kinder und Jugendliche zahlen können unter der Kontrolle der Eltern. Lass Eltern den Werkzeugkasten an die Hand geben, dass sie steuern können, wie frei Kinder bezahlen können sollen. Will ich die Transaktionen sehen?\n\nWill ich sie nicht sehen? Am Ende liefern wir den Werkzeugkasten, das überhaupt zu ermöglichen. Genau und das war natürlich damals die Vision gewesen und das diese Verbreiterung kam dann einfach über die Zeit.\n\nSpeaker 1: Und jetzt noch mal, da haben wir, glaub ich, noch nicht hier übergesprochen, eine Frage als Vater. Wenn man Bling nutzen will, macht es vor allen Dingen Sinn, wenn das Kind schon ein Smartphone hat?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also es ist ist so, dass man da den größten Funktionsumfang hat, während das Kind schon ein Smartphone hat. Es ist aber auch möglich, dass ein Wir unterstützen auch 'n Tablet Log in, das ist so der Junior Mode sozusagen, nennen wir den. Das bedeutet, dass man mehrere Profile auf 'nem Tablet hat, son bisschen wie man das bei Netflix kennt und zwischen den Kindern dann wechseln kann. Das ist auch möglich, weil einscannen vom QR Code kann man sich da entsprechend auch auf 'nem Tablet zum Beispiel einloggen. Weil oft haben Familienhalt eben einen Tablet und sonst würde es sich theoretisch auf komplett aus der Elternansicht alle steuern lassen, dass man die Kinder das Kinderlog in da nicht aktivieren müsste.\n\nAlso entweder man hat das Kinderlog in, weil es Kinder 'n Smartphone hat, man benutzt den Junior Mode, weil man ein Family Tablet hat. Das sind son bisschen die das sind son bisschen die Möglichkeiten, die man da hat.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dann würde ich gerne noch auf einen ganz anderen Punkt zu sprechen kommen. Und zwar hast Du ja am Anfang deiner Geschichte erzählt, wie ihr Neon aufgebaut habt und das Ganze sehr spartanisch angefangen hat, positiv formuliert oder sehr lean, wie man heute sagen würde, ja. Und bei Bling seid ihr ja einen sehr anderen Weg gegangen. So wie ich das verstehe, ist Bling ja fremdfinanziert.\n\nSpeaker 2: Richtig.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und da würde mich mal interessieren, wie wie wie viel Kulturschock das für dich war im Prinzip. Kommt von so, wir wir haben Neon gebotsrappt und selber aufgebaut und organisch mit entsprechend Zeit groß gemacht hin zu Blingen, wo vielleicht die Mittel und Wege dann anders waren, aber auch die Herausforderungen und die Rechenschaft vielleicht auch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ist eine gute Frage. Wir, der der Blink case war am Anfang so gestaltet gewesen, dass wir gesagt haben, wir machen das Bootstrap, weil Nils sozusagen als Schweizer in der Schweiz damals angefangen hat, Hörspiele in die Schweiz zu importieren, die in Schweizer Deutschland aufzulegen, weil das sone Marktlücke war. Und dann hat er sozusagen sehr stark in dem Segment sozusagen gearbeitet und hat dann da eigene Buchreihen rausgebracht und so weiter und so fort, eigene Hörbücher, deutsche Hörbücher in der Schweiz verlegt und kam dann auch sehr stark aus diesem Engel, hat dann die größte Schülerzeitung der Schweiz sozusagen gegründet, TIEs und hat das dann sozusagen teilweise die Unternehmen verkauft und die Schülerzeitung, das kann ich grad gar nicht beantworten, das weiß ich grad gar nicht. Das kann ich grad gar nicht beantworten, das weiß ich grad gar nicht. Auch verkauft oder\n\nSpeaker 0: Ihr kommt auch bald Sublingen zurück. Ich seh das schon.\n\nSpeaker 2: Übergebene sozusagen. Und deswegen haben wir natürlich sehr stark dieses Bootstopp Mindset Mindset gehabt. Dann haben wir gesagt, okay, wir starten Bling. Lass uns das Bootstrip machen, das war die Idee und so ist es auf ihn, ist es alles losgegangen. Und dann gab's so die ersten Zeitungsartikel und dann sind sozusagen die ersten Venture Capital Unternehmen auf uns zugekommen, die aus Berlin, haben uns besucht, sind vorbeigekommen.\n\nHaben gesagt, finden Sie 'n spannenden Case? Und dann haben wir natürlich auch son bisschen realisiert über die Zeit, okay, das wirklich groß zu machen, brauchen wir einfach 'n gewisses Startkapital, das zu ermöglichen. Und haben dann sozusagen unsere ersten Partner, VC Partner mit reingenommen, die bei uns investiert sind und da haben wir sozusagen Im Sprech sind wir sozusagen Post Series A nennt man das in 'ner gewissen Form. Es gibt sozusagen eine Seed Runde und es gibt eine eine Post Series A Runde sozusagen und haben da natürlich eine ganze Menge an Kapital eingesammelt, aber Geld benötigen wir halt, hier jetzt wachsen zu können. Es ist aber jetzt nicht so, dass man Wir sind uns, glaub ich, im Herzen sehr treu geblieben.\n\nEs ist jetzt nicht so, dass die, dass sich da jetzt zu unserem Bootstrap Mindset, wir haben zwar mehr Kapital zur Verfügung und können brauchen das, das halt eben entsprechend groß zu machen, aber es ist jetzt nicht so, dass man sich jetzt hier irgendwie fühlt und es belagert mit Geld. Das ist überhaupt nicht der Fall. Also man hat sehr stark die Botschaft Mentality weiterhin und vielleicht würde sich der ein oder andere auch noch mal stärker wünschen von von von von Leuten, die wir bei uns im Umfeld haben, dass wir die 'n bisschen stärker ablegen, aber Nils und ich sind da sehr streng. Jeder jeder Vertrag mit dem Partner muss nachverhandelt werden. Da wird erst approved.\n\nAuch die Leute bei Fiber müssen nachverhandelt werden. Es muss alles sozusagen nachverhandelt werden. Wir versuchen da so sparsam wie möglich an unser Ziel zu kommen und das mit dem Kapitaleinsatz, den wir entsprechend haben.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ist ja eine lange Runrate lobenswert, aber so wie ich das gelesen hab, habt ihr ja schon auch 'n bisschen was von dem Geld in die Hand genommen, so größere Einkäufe zu tätigen.\n\nSpeaker 2: Hast Du 'n hast Du 'n Beispiel, worauf Du Ah, okay, jetzt ich versteh, worauf Du hinaus ist. Hat's kurz gedauert. Genau, was wir natürlich gemacht haben, ist, dass wir Fin Step 'n Unternehmen gekauft haben vor wenigen Monaten, da jetzt aktiv sind, die bei uns natürlich in die App zu integrieren. Und genau, da natürlich noch mal grade in dem Rahmen finanzielle Bildung, weil's uns einfach sehr wichtig ist, da 'n Unternehmen gefunden haben, was sehr gut passt und dass bei uns natürlich gesagt haben, okay, das wollen wir sehr stark bei uns eingliedern und das war natürlich 'n Thema, was wir vor einigen Monaten natürlich entsprechend angestoßen haben. Ich hab mich grad schon geholt, worauf Du worauf Du\n\nSpeaker 0: Es gab im Kopf von so die ganzen, meint er den Whirlpool auf der Dachterrasse, meint er, was? Welche großen Einkäufer? Weiter. Nein, also ja, ich, genau, ich meinte meinte Finstap. Und was mich interessieren würde, ist, das ist ja, also aus, ihr seid noch relativ jung und trotzdem schon quasi eine andere Firma da übernommen.\n\nWie lief das organisatorisch? Habt ihr die bei euch integriert? Lasst ihr das weiterhin alles getrennt und integriert das quasi nur kundenseitig in der in der App? Wie wie führt ihr diese 2 Firmen zusammen?\n\nSpeaker 2: Genau, also bei uns ist es so, Nils hat das sehr stark gestartet, muss man an der Stelle sagen. Also Nils, mein Kofferraum da, wie gesagt, ich bin für den kompletten Productbereich zuständig und für den kompletten Rest ist Nils sozusagen zuständig. Das ist son bisschen die Aufteilung bei uns. Das bedeutet, bei uns sieht das jetzt aktuell so aus, dass wir uns alles, was sozusagen Fin Step ausmacht sozusagen versuchen, in die Black App unterzubringen. Wir werden das nicht als 2 getrennte Apps haben, die sind ja auch mit unterschiedlichen Technologien gebaut und auch unterschiedliche Datenstrukturen.\n\nDas bedeutet, wir werden das komplett überführen und werden das bei uns alle Inhalte und alles, was Fin Step ausmacht, werden wir die Kinderansicht bei uns entsprechend unterbringen. Und das wird dann Anfang Anfang des nächsten Jahres so weit sein, dass das entsprechend auch live geht.\n\nSpeaker 1: Okay.\n\nSpeaker 0: Dennis, hast Du noch eine Frage? Es ist\n\nSpeaker 1: jetzt 'n bisschen spät, weil das Ganze am Anfang war, aber vielleicht trotzdem, weil's mich noch mal interessiert und bist ja bist dann schnell weitergegangen war, diese Youtube Anfänge. Aber heut wollte ich noch mal ganz kurz rein, weil Du sagtest, ja, da warst Du selbst irgendwie 13, 14, weil erst da dachte ich, okay, damals schon mit der Zielgruppe zu tun. Dann dachte ich, Du hast irgendwie Lernvideos für Kinder und Jugendliche gemacht, aber Du warst ja selbst noch Kind und Jugendliche dann in der Zeit. Wo kam denn damals dann dein Wissen her, was Du dir, was Du dann verbreitet hast?\n\nSpeaker 2: Na ja, das ist 'n guter Punkt. Ich glaube, was ich damals gemacht habe, ist natürlich, dass ich mir sehr, sehr viele andere Youtube Videos angeschaut habe international und das Wissen sozusagen aggregiert habe und geschaut hab, okay, was fehlt irgendwie in dem deutschen Markt oder wo waren halt eben Leute einfach grade Probleme und das Wissen halt eben aggregiert habe. Vielleicht das, was heute eine AI machen würde und das sozusagen in noch mal 'nem anderen Format halt eben erklärt habe. Und ich glaube, dass ich mir da eine sehr gute Erkläreigenschaft über die Jahre angeeignet hab, dass ich halt eben Wissen konsumiert habe, sehr tief in in unterschiedliche Themen reingegangen bin und versucht hab, die noch mal aggregiert, einfach in 'ner gewissen Form darzustellen. Und da ging es halt so Videos wie, okay, wie setze ich zum Beispiel 'n Linux Server auf, aber auch wie setze ich bestimmte Gaming Server auf, wie hoste ich die wo und so weiter und so fort.\n\nWie kann ich die in 'ner gewissen Form skalieren? Wie kann ich aber auch Plug Ins für bestimmte Server entwickeln, also für bestimmte Spiele zum Beispiel? Es ist sehr in diese technische Entwicklungsrichtung gegangen und das war so in 'ner gewissen Form der Fokus gewesen für den deutschen Markt und damals war es oft noch nicht alles noch nicht so international gewesen. Und die Plattform war natürlich auch einfach noch sehr, sehr klein, dass man auf zu allen nicht Hunderte oder tausende Videos gefunden hat. Also heute haben wir ja da eine Contentflut, aber damals gab's halt nur ein Video und wenn man das, wenn man 'n Tutorial gemacht hat nach einem Video und es hat bei einem Lokal nicht geklappt, dann war man als Endkonsument super unzufrieden, weil man so dachte, ich hab das doch 1 zu 1 genauso gemacht.\n\nWarum klappt das bei mir nicht? Ich Und man hat halt nicht diese Auswahl, die man heute hat, wo man sich 10 Videos anschaut und sagt, ah okay, ich hatte eine ganz andere Version zum Beispiel, deswegen hat das nicht geklappt zum Beispiel. Oder die Person hat einfach das Video umbenannt und das ist eigentlich was ganz anderes gewesen. Genau, das war son bisschen der Hintergrund.\n\nSpeaker 0: Die spannende Frage ist eigentlich, gibt's die Videos noch?\n\nSpeaker 2: Die Videos gibt's nicht mehr. Ich hab die mittlerweile alle privat genommen. Vielleicht tue ich die immer noch mal rausnehmen. Es ist aber immer eine schöne Erinnerung. Ich schau mir die schon alle paar Jahre entsprechend an und genau.\n\nDeswegen, ich bin auch mal gespannt. Ich hab auf unsere Reise, die ich sozusagen dann ja, gestartet habe, habe ich auch immer in Videos dokumentiert. Das bedeutet ich, das finde ich schön, vielleicht auch auf an an alle Zuhörer und Zuhörerinnen mal. Ich, alle paar Monate setze ich mich mit meinen Ängsten zusammen, also mit meinen Co Foundern von den jeweiligen Unternehmen setz ich mich entsprechend zusammen. Und wir drehen immer 'n Status Update und reden komplett ehrlich, wie wir uns grade fühlen, was grade gut läuft, die erste Einstellung des Mitarbeiters, was für Sorgen wir vielleicht auch haben, was klappt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Und wir\n\nSpeaker 2: schauen uns diese Videos nie wieder an. Also das bedeutet, wir haben diese Videos noch nie angeschaut. Wir haben das jetzt seit 10 Jahren oder so machen wir das. Und wir haben uns kein Video seitdem wieder angeschaut und irgendwann wollen wir das gerne mal zusammenschneiden und in 'nem besonderen Moment uns das alles anschauen. Und dann sieht man auch in 'ner gewissen Form noch mal die Up and Downs, die man halt auf dieser komplette Strecke hat und die auch in der Zukunft noch kommen.\n\nAlso es sind ja, es wird noch viele Themen geben, noch viele Themen, die gut laufen, Sachen, die vielleicht doch einfach schlecht laufen. Das wird die Zukunft zeigen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hast Du noch so eine irgendwie größte Herausforderung aus technologischer Sicht, die ihr im Moment habt? Oder bist Du relativ entspannt und ihr entwickelt einfach Features?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ich glaube, es ist son bisschen die größte Herausforderung, ich glaub, weniger in technischer Sicht, sondern wie bekomm ich alt, wie bekomm ich AI am besten in meine Produktprozesse überall inkludiert? Wo macht das Sinn? Wo macht das keinen Sinn? Das ist, glaub ich, immer eine Herausforderung. Wie bekomme ich auch Leute überzeugt, die vielleicht weniger Lust auf die Usage von AI zum Beispiel haben, damit sich selbst zu hebeln?\n\nWie bekomme ich Leute, die es zu viel einfach nutzen dazu, es weniger zu nutzen? Ich glaub, das ist son bisschen die Herausforderung und deswegen fände ich's auch irgendwann noch mal spannend bei euch, noch mal 'n Podcast hören, nicht mit mir, aber vielleicht mit jemand anders, noch mal ganz tief dadrüber, über I zu sprechen in dem Zusammenhang, wie bekomme ich PS auf die Straße? Wie kann ich das aktiv in Produktprozesse inkludieren? Wie mache ich das, wie bring ich das meinen Teammitgliedern bei? Wo macht was Sinn?\n\nCursor, Co Pilot, alles Mögliche, was es ergibt, die unterschiedlichen Modelle? Wie kann ich das im Produktmanagement, in Design? Welche MPMCP Servermassen Sinn und so? Das wär, glaub ich, noch mal 'n spannendes Thema. Das will sich mir, die Folge würde ich mir gerne bei euch irgendwann noch mal anhören.\n\nSpeaker 1: Mag das, wenn auch mal 'n bisschen Ideen und Forderungen der Fotografie gegenüber gestellt werden. Das find ich sehr gut, Jan.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ja, also kommt direkt hab ich schon aufgeschrieben grade.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, sehr gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Auf die auf die Liste. Cool. Okay. Dann keine letzte Frage mehr?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nein? Nein? Also ich würde jetzt Lea noch eine stellen, die wir klassischerweise stellen, aber das machst Du vielleicht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Kannst Du doch, kannst Du gerne machen. Ich hab nur eine letzte Anmerkung. Ich hab nämlich eben noch mal Wikipedia aufgemacht und die Euro\n\nSpeaker 1: raus. Nee, ich Job.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, nein, nein, ich hab angefangen. Kitty. Was?\n\nSpeaker 1: Das hast Du nämlich nicht rausgeholt in der Zeit, ich aber. 2 Jahre lang hieß sie Kitty. Ich bin dir einen Sprung voraus. Ich hab nämlich noch Gemini genutzt.\n\nSpeaker 0: Ich hab nicht Gemini genutzt, sondern deshalb hab ich die richtigen Fakten.\n\nSpeaker 1: Juli 2000 Okay, erzähl, was im Juli passierte.\n\nSpeaker 0: Nein, ich wollte nur sagen, dass die Euromaus wirklich Euromaus heißt, Ja. So. Aber sie heißt at mit Vorname und das war mir aus meiner Jugend nicht\n\nSpeaker 1: Ja, aber noch mal mehr, weil Du ja auch alt bist schon. Danke. Neunzehnhundertsiebenundsiebzig bis 2015 hieß sie. Nur Euromaus, da gab's jetzt noch nicht. Ja.\n\nUnd den Vornamen Ed und damals auch dann noch mit Edda zusammen kam erst Juli 2015 zum vierzigjährigen Park Jubiläum. Genau. Und nämlich 2 Jahre, das ist dann für die Hardcore Fans, von 75 bis neunzehnhundertsiebenundsiebzig hieß sie Kitty und wurde dann in den Euromaos umbenannt.\n\nSpeaker 2: Das ist ja auch 'n bisschen nach 1\n\nSpeaker 1: eine Rolle,\n\nSpeaker 0: Kitty zu nennen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Nach 1 Umfrage durch eine Zeitung und tatsächlich auch, oh\n\nSpeaker 0: Bin ich gespannt.\n\nSpeaker 1: Ach nee, das war, glaub ich, schon die Umfrage. Irgendwo irgendwo gab's noch eine Umfrage\n\nSpeaker 0: Ob's wieder zurückgenannt werden soll?\n\nSpeaker 1: Nee, aber ja, da kann doch eher dazu. Aber jetzt sind wir auch da noch schlauer geworden.\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, freut mich, dass wir das noch mal klären konnten jetzt,\n\nSpeaker 0: dahinter. Die richtigen Fragen eben. Kritischer Journalismus in der Programmierbar.\n\nSpeaker 1: Hoffentlich ist das nicht halluziniert mit diesem Kiddy Ding. Vielleicht hätte ich das noch mal verifizieren sollen. Ah okay, also das Kiddy Ding ist von der AI, da übernehmen wir\n\nSpeaker 0: aber keine Haftung drauf. Eure Maus halt stimmt, aber jetzt kannst Du mit deiner letzten Frage abschließen.\n\nSpeaker 1: Genau. Das ist ja auch so schon 'n Klassiker in der CTO Folge, nämlich wenn Du der der junge Leon, ich glaub, so alt bist Du auch immer noch nicht, aber trotzdem zurückreisen könntest und deinem sehr jungen Ich etwas zuflüstern könntest, was dir irgendwie in der Zeit deutlich weitergeholfen\n\nSpeaker 2: hätte oder\n\nSpeaker 1: was Du anders machen würdest. Gibt's da irgendwas, was dir spontan in den Kopf kommt, wo Du sagst, so, das wär was, das hätte ich gern früher gewusst?\n\nSpeaker 2: Ja, ich glaube mir auf mein Bauchgefühl hören. Ich glaube, das ist was, was ich über die letzten Jahre am stärksten gelernt habe, dass ich meinem Bauchgefühl sehr stark vertrauen kann und dass man manchmal dazu neigt, das zu überschreiben mit Fakten und sich das wegzuaktionalisieren. Und dass ich einfach festgestellt hab, dass ich in der Vergangenheit noch mehr hätte auf mein Bauchgefühl hören müssen. Und das ist was, was ich meinem jungen Abend nicht gerne sagen wollen würde.\n\nSpeaker 1: Cool. Vielen Dank.\n\nSpeaker 2: Danke euch. Vielen, vielen Dank für die Einladung. Hat Spaß gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Hat uns auch Spaß gemacht. Schön, dass Du da warst. Schön, dass Du dir Zeit genommen hast. Wenn ihr da draußen noch Fragen habt zur Euromaus oder zu anderen Themen, dann könnt ihr gerne eine E-Mail\n\nSpeaker 2: schreiben denn Tennis at Programm. Euromaus at programmiert Punkt bar.\n\nSpeaker 0: Oder kommt auf unser Discord Server und stellt da eure Fragen oder hinterlasst einfach gerne Kommentare und Bewertungen auf den ganzen Social Media und Podcast Plattformen. Wir freuen uns immer. Wir lesen auch alles fleißig mit, auch wenn wir nicht ehrlicherweise immer zeitnah antworten können. Zum Beispiel, dass wir Gleich\n\nSpeaker 1: könnte man auch aus dieser Folge, obwohl live haben wir immer schon schwer gemacht, aber Leons Idee mit diesem mit, ob Du nun son Armer machst, son, der Programmierer und Lotum.\n\nSpeaker 0: Aber mehr dazu bald nächstes Jahr oder so. Ich weiß gar nicht wann die Folge kommt, vielleicht\n\nSpeaker 1: auch übernächste, whatever. So. Cool. Lea, vielen, vielen Dank. Hat dir sehr viel Spaß gemacht.\n\nSpeaker 0: Mir auch. Danke dir Leon. Wir hören und sehen uns bald wieder. Bis dann.\n\nSpeaker 1: Bis dann, macht's gut.\n\nSpeaker 0: Tschau, tschau.\n\nSpeaker 1: Tschau, tschau.",[36673,36685,36694,36699,36709,36716,36727,36733,36740,36745,36750,36757,36761,36768,36772,36783,36788,36798,36802,36807,36815,36827,36831,36836,36841,36847,36851,36856,36865,36873,36880,36887,36893,36900,36913,36926,36937,36943,36956,36969,36980,36987,36996,37007,37020,37032,37045,37058,37069,37076,37089,37102,37109,37115,37122,37133,37146,37155,37158,37171,37181,37188,37197,37210,37216,37228,37238,37242,37246,37250,37263,37268,37274,37287,37295,37307,37320,37326,37332,37338,37351,37364,37368,37375,37388,37401,37414,37425,37438,37443,37454,37467,37480,37485,37493,37497,37509,37520,37533,37545,37558,37571,37583,37588,37601,37605,37617,37624,37629,37641,37654,37667,37679,37690,37703,37709,37713,37726,37738,37747,37755,37760,37767,37770,37783,37791,37797,37801,37806,37818,37831,37843,37847,37860,37867,37871,37875,37887,37891,37898,37901,37914,37926,37932,37944,37957,37961,37970,37974,37987,37997,38009,38021,38033,38044,38048,38059,38063,38068,38076,38080,38093,38103,38107,38113,38118,38124,38133,38142,38149,38153,38163,38167,38173,38177,38187,38191,38195,38207,38213,38220,38224,38230,38241,38245,38253,38257,38265,38271,38283,38291,38298,38311,38317,38320,38330,38333,38340,38353,38359,38372,38384,38397,38405,38409,38422,38433,38443,38455,38462,38465,38471,38482,38494,38506,38516,38520,38532,38545,38549,38562,38568,38575,38587,38599,38611,38617,38621,38625,38633,38639,38647,38652,38658,38668,38672,38676,38683,38693,38700,38704,38708,38712,38716,38720,38726,38730,38736,38740,38747,38755,38761,38766,38770,38776,38787,38792,38800,38810,38816,38826,38830,38836,38846,38856,38860,38864],{"sentences":36674,"speaker":88,"num_words":36684,"start":85,"end":222},[36675,36677,36679,36681,36682],{"text":36676,"start":85,"end":135},"Hallo und herzlich willkommen zu 1 neuen programmierbar Spezial CTO Special Sonderausgabe.",{"text":36678,"start":140,"end":167},"Weiß nicht, so jetzt sehr viel Spezial.",{"text":36680,"start":172,"end":194},"Aber so ist es halt bei uns.",{"text":202,"start":194,"end":199},{"text":36683,"start":205,"end":222},"Keine Folge wie die andere.",32,{"sentences":36686,"speaker":88,"num_words":36693,"start":226,"end":290},[36687,36689,36691],{"text":36688,"start":226,"end":261},"Und heute mit mir im Studio ist Dennis Becker.",{"text":36690,"start":261,"end":267},"Dennis Becker.",{"text":36692,"start":267,"end":290},"Und wer ist mit dir im Studio, Dennis?",19,{"sentences":36695,"speaker":67,"num_words":36698,"start":294,"end":308},[36696],{"text":36697,"start":294,"end":308},"Jan Gregor M Getriebe.",4,{"sentences":36700,"speaker":88,"num_words":36708,"start":308,"end":400},[36701,36703,36705,36706],{"text":36702,"start":308,"end":330},"Das hast Du wunderbar gesagt.",{"text":36704,"start":330,"end":370},"Das ist viel einfacher, als wenn ich das selber machen muss.",{"text":378,"start":375,"end":376},{"text":36707,"start":376,"end":400},"Das ist Arbeitsteilung hier am Arbeitsplatz.",23,{"sentences":36710,"speaker":67,"num_words":36715,"start":405,"end":486},[36711,36713],{"text":36712,"start":405,"end":450},"Dabei haben wir uns erst so kurz vor diesem neue Intro entschieden.",{"text":36714,"start":450,"end":486},"Jetzt hast Du schon wieder mich völlig den Puls hochgetrieben.",22,{"sentences":36717,"speaker":88,"num_words":36726,"start":490,"end":587},[36718,36720,36721,36723,36725],{"text":36719,"start":490,"end":527},"Ja, Du, man musst ja auf Zack halten, weißt Du?",{"text":202,"start":527,"end":531},{"text":36722,"start":531,"end":548},"Wer rastet, der rostet.",{"text":36724,"start":551,"end":583},"Dennis, Du bist auch großer Fan vom Europapark, oder?",{"text":202,"start":586,"end":587},25,{"sentences":36728,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":591,"end":623},[36729,36730],{"text":594,"start":591,"end":592},{"text":36731,"start":592,"end":623},"Du wolltest, wie heißt das, Maskottchen vom Europapark?",9,{"sentences":36734,"speaker":67,"num_words":36739,"start":627,"end":748},[36735,36737],{"text":36736,"start":627,"end":694},"Jetzt jetzt, ich glaub, die Folge kommt zu spät raus, aber jetzt heißt, wir könnten son programmierbarhörer eintreffen im Europapark machen.",{"text":36738,"start":694,"end":748},"Das Weil im Dezember fahren wir ja mit 'n paar Kolleginnen noch mal in den Europapark.",37,{"sentences":36741,"speaker":88,"num_words":36744,"start":752,"end":770},[36742],{"text":36743,"start":752,"end":770},"Ja, das wird, also das wird",6,{"sentences":36746,"speaker":67,"num_words":36749,"start":770,"end":829},[36747],{"text":36748,"start":770,"end":829},"halt für diese Folge nix mehr, aber vielleicht können wir also die News noch mal aufnehmen.",16,{"sentences":36751,"speaker":88,"num_words":36756,"start":829,"end":888},[36752,36754],{"text":36753,"start":829,"end":862},"Ja, das können wir ja, ja, kommen wir hin.",{"text":36755,"start":862,"end":888},"Also, Anyway, wie heißt das Maskottchen vom Europapark?",17,{"sentences":36758,"speaker":67,"num_words":1436,"start":891,"end":897},[36759],{"text":36760,"start":891,"end":897},"Die Euromaus?",{"sentences":36762,"speaker":88,"num_words":36767,"start":901,"end":945},[36763,36765],{"text":36764,"start":901,"end":913},"Ja, die Euromaus, genau.",{"text":36766,"start":917,"end":945},"Wolltest Du schon immer mal die Euromaus im Portemonnaie haben?",14,{"sentences":36769,"speaker":67,"num_words":36767,"start":948,"end":993},[36770],{"text":36771,"start":948,"end":993},"Ich hatte lieber 'n Bild von der Euromir in meinem Portemonnaie als die Euromaus.",{"sentences":36773,"speaker":88,"num_words":36782,"start":998,"end":1084},[36774,36776,36778,36780],{"text":36775,"start":998,"end":1022},"Leon, Du siehst, ich hab es versucht, ja?",{"text":36777,"start":1022,"end":1050},"Ich ich hab es versucht, ihn dahin zu bringen.",{"text":36779,"start":1050,"end":1068},"Er hat das nicht verstanden.",{"text":36781,"start":1068,"end":1084},"Wir haben heute im Studio unsere",28,{"sentences":36784,"speaker":67,"num_words":36787,"start":1087,"end":1096},[36785],{"text":36786,"start":1087,"end":1096},"Die Euro Maus.",3,{"sentences":36789,"speaker":88,"num_words":36797,"start":1101,"end":1270},[36790,36792,36793,36795],{"text":36791,"start":1101,"end":1132},"Unseren Gast Leon Stefan, der nicht die Euro Maus ist.",{"text":1139,"start":1132,"end":1137},{"text":36794,"start":1137,"end":1225},"Leon ist der CTO von und Mitgründer von Bling und Bling bietet unter anderem Bezahlkarten für Kinder an und Du kannst sie bestellen mit dem Motiv der Euromaus.",{"text":36796,"start":1228,"end":1270},"Das wär jetzt eigentlich meine Einleitung gewesen, aber Du bist nicht so ganz drauf angesprungen.",54,{"sentences":36799,"speaker":67,"num_words":36767,"start":1274,"end":1313},[36800],{"text":36801,"start":1274,"end":1313},"Ja, doch, aber die die Frage ist ja, also wie alt schätzt Du mich?",{"sentences":36803,"speaker":88,"num_words":36806,"start":1316,"end":1340},[36804],{"text":36805,"start":1316,"end":1340},"Also die Frage ist ja, wie alt fühlst Du bist?",10,{"sentences":36808,"speaker":67,"num_words":36782,"start":1344,"end":1429},[36809,36811,36813],{"text":36810,"start":1344,"end":1390},"Und ob auf mein Kind das Richtige für mich ist, das erzählt uns jetzt Leon.",{"text":36812,"start":1390,"end":1407},"Erst mal begrüßen wir ihn vielleicht.",{"text":36814,"start":1407,"end":1429},"Hallo Leon, schön, dass Du da bist.",{"sentences":36816,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36826,"start":1433,"end":1523},[36817,36818,36820,36822,36824],{"text":1438,"start":1433,"end":1434},{"text":36819,"start":1434,"end":1459},"Vielen, vielen lieben Dank für die Einladung.",{"text":36821,"start":1459,"end":1471},"Hallo Jan, hallo Dennis.",{"text":36823,"start":1476,"end":1509},"Ihr sprecht über Ed und Edda aus dem Europapark entsprechend.",{"text":36825,"start":1509,"end":1523},"Das sind die beiden Maskottchen.",27,{"sentences":36828,"speaker":88,"num_words":1436,"start":1527,"end":1533},[36829],{"text":36830,"start":1527,"end":1533},"Siehst Du,",{"sentences":36832,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36835,"start":1533,"end":1551},[36833],{"text":36834,"start":1533,"end":1551},"Du hast er hat sogar",5,{"sentences":36837,"speaker":67,"num_words":36840,"start":1551,"end":1571},[36838],{"text":36839,"start":1551,"end":1571},"er hat sogar die Intro nicht richtig hinbekommen",8,{"sentences":36842,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":1571,"end":1597},[36843,36845],{"text":36844,"start":1571,"end":1582},"mit der Euro Maus.",{"text":36846,"start":1584,"end":1597},"Das siehst doch früher Euro",{"sentences":36848,"speaker":1436,"num_words":1436,"start":1597,"end":1605},[36849],{"text":36850,"start":1597,"end":1605},"Maus, oder?",{"sentences":36852,"speaker":88,"num_words":36698,"start":1607,"end":1621},[36853,36855],{"text":36854,"start":1607,"end":1616},"Ich bin verwirrt.",{"text":378,"start":1620,"end":1621},{"sentences":36857,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36864,"start":1624,"end":1768},[36858,36860,36862],{"text":36859,"start":1624,"end":1701},"Genau und ja, ich bin zufälligerweise auch jetzt im Winter über Weihnachts geht's für mich immer einmal im Jahr mit meinem Mitgründer Nils, immer in den Europapark.",{"text":36861,"start":1701,"end":1718},"Da sind wir immer ein Wochenende.",{"text":36863,"start":1722,"end":1768},"Das machen wir immer aus Tradition jährlich, witzigerweise, dass ihr da auch diese Sane fahrt.",48,{"sentences":36866,"speaker":67,"num_words":36782,"start":1773,"end":1863},[36867,36869,36871],{"text":36868,"start":1773,"end":1780},"Na cool.",{"text":36870,"start":1784,"end":1853},"Ist Edda sone Ergänzung wegen Gleichberechtigung irgendwann gewesen oder sind Edda und Edda schon gemeinsam gestartet oder war das irgendwann nur mal Ed?",{"text":36872,"start":1853,"end":1863},"Weißt Du das?",{"sentences":36874,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36879,"start":1863,"end":1989},[36875,36877],{"text":36876,"start":1863,"end":1952},"Das ist nur, das müsste man jetzt die Europapark Hardcore Fans, glaube ich, an dem Punkt fragen, weil sozusagen Bling selbst hat ja keine Relation mit dem Europapark.",{"text":36878,"start":1955,"end":1989},"Wir sind natürlich Europapark Fans, aber das kann ich dir leider gar nicht beantworten.",42,{"sentences":36881,"speaker":88,"num_words":36886,"start":1992,"end":2101},[36882,36884],{"text":36883,"start":1992,"end":2001},"Okay, sehr gut.",{"text":36885,"start":2001,"end":2101},"Ich mein, können wir jetzt nicht im Prinzip, wenn wir jetzt übernächste Woche in den Europapark fahren, können wir das jetzt nicht als Recherchereise abschreiben, weil wir das für diese Podcastfolge quasi dringend klären müssen?",38,{"sentences":36888,"speaker":67,"num_words":36840,"start":2101,"end":2132},[36889,36891],{"text":36890,"start":2101,"end":2116},"Vielleicht gibt's auch Pressetickets.",{"text":36892,"start":2120,"end":2132},"Ja, müssen wir gucken.",{"sentences":36894,"speaker":88,"num_words":36899,"start":2137,"end":2324},[36895,36897],{"text":36896,"start":2137,"end":2285},"Ne, aber bevor wir über Edda sprechen und darüber schauen, wie sie bei euch auf die Bezahlkarten gekommen sind, Stefan lass uns, Leon, ist das schlecht Stefan, oh Gott, Lass uns doch einmal erst mal darüber sprechen, was ihr überhaupt macht und wie ihr dazu gekommen seid.",{"text":36898,"start":2288,"end":2324},"Vielleicht einmal ganz kurz der Elevator Pitch für alle, die Bling nicht kennen.",60,{"sentences":36901,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36912,"start":2327,"end":2698},[36902,36904,36906,36908,36910],{"text":36903,"start":2327,"end":2337},"Ja, ja, sehr gerne.",{"text":36905,"start":2337,"end":2379},"Also Bling ist eine Taschengeldkarte für Kinder und Jugendliche zwischen 7 und 17 Jahre.",{"text":36907,"start":2379,"end":2410},"Damit sind wir sozusagen 2022 mit an den Markt gegangen.",{"text":36909,"start":2413,"end":2445},"Die Company selbst wurde von Nils und Nil gegründet in 20 21.",{"text":36911,"start":2449,"end":2698},"Wir sind mit der Vision rangegangen zu sagen, hey, in der Schule lernt man eigentlich, lernt den Satz des Pythagoras, man lernt Gedichte zu interpretieren, aber man lernt überhaupt nicht den Umgang mit Geld und wir wollen gerne eine Lösung für Kinder und Jugendliche schaffen, haben da eine Marktlücke gesehen, sind da entsprechend in den Bereich reingegangen, haben die Taschengeldlösung selbst geschaffen, bauen da sozusagen auf 'ner kompletten Bankinginfrastruktur auf und haben dann nach und nach eine ganze Reihe von weiteren Produkten gelauncht.",123,{"sentences":36914,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36925,"start":2698,"end":2822},[36915,36917,36919,36921,36923],{"text":36916,"start":2698,"end":2721},"Also mittlerweile machen wir Mobilfunk für für Familien.",{"text":36918,"start":2725,"end":2735},"Wir machen einen Familienplaner.",{"text":36920,"start":2739,"end":2759},"Man kann seinen ganzen Alltag darüber planen.",{"text":36922,"start":2762,"end":2778},"Wir haben 'n Investmentprodukt am Start.",{"text":36924,"start":2782,"end":2822},"Anfang Januar gehen wir sogar an die ganzen Schulen rein und launchen sozusagen Schulpayments.",39,{"sentences":36927,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36936,"start":2826,"end":3068},[36928,36930,36932,36934],{"text":36929,"start":2826,"end":2883},"Also das bedeutet, wir machen die ganzen Zahlungen für die Caterer in der Schule, weil man sein Essen abholen will.",{"text":36931,"start":2886,"end":2949},"Also eine ganze ganze Bandbreite, die wir da jetzt über die Jahre geschaffen haben, das macht superviel Spaß mit dem Team und mit der Zielgruppe.",{"text":36933,"start":2953,"end":3029},"Ist eine Zielgruppe, die Nils und ich sehr, sehr gerne haben, für die wir gerne Produkte entwickeln und das ist Bling an dem Punkt, wo es grade steht.",{"text":36935,"start":3029,"end":3068},"Man könnte natürlich jetzt noch viel tiefer eintauchen, aber das mal als kurzer Überblick.",87,{"sentences":36938,"speaker":88,"num_words":36925,"start":3071,"end":3182},[36939,36941],{"text":36940,"start":3071,"end":3131},"Wenn Du sagst, das ist eine Zielgruppe, die euch die euch wichtig ist, wie war denn die Entscheidung, dahin zu kommen?",{"text":36942,"start":3131,"end":3182},"Weil das ja vielleicht nicht das allernaheliegendste Produkt zu sagen, wir machen hier Finance für Kinder und Jugendliche.",{"sentences":36944,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36955,"start":3186,"end":3418},[36945,36947,36949,36951,36953],{"text":36946,"start":3186,"end":3202},"Ja, ist 'n sehr, sehr guter Punkt.",{"text":36948,"start":3202,"end":3250},"Also bei mir hat alles grundsätzlich son bisschen damals gestartet, 2011 hab ich Youtube angefangen.",{"text":36950,"start":3250,"end":3287},"Das war son bisschen die zweite Generation Youtube, wenn man sich das vorstellen will.",{"text":36952,"start":3287,"end":3345},"Also es gab damals eine Reihe von Kanälen, die es schon gab, aber Youtube war in Deutschland zumindest in ihren Ursprüngen.",{"text":36954,"start":3349,"end":3418},"Da habe ich sozusagen angefangen, Tech Videos zu machen, hatte das dann damals bis auf 80000 Subscriber dann skaliert in 'ner gewissen Form.",80,{"sentences":36957,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36968,"start":3418,"end":3809},[36958,36960,36962,36964,36966],{"text":36959,"start":3418,"end":3473},"Das war für 2011, 2012, 2013 relativ viel und hab leider nie den silbernen Play Button bekommen.",{"text":36961,"start":3473,"end":3498},"Das war immer son Ziel, das ist die Hunderttausendergrenze.",{"text":36963,"start":3502,"end":3537},"Die hab ich leider nie erreicht und hab da ganz viele Tech Videos gedreht.",{"text":36965,"start":3541,"end":3760},"Und da habe ich so die Leidenschaft für den Tech Bereich im Allgemeinen einfach gefunden und bin dann IBM gejoint, war viele paar Jahre bei IBM, hab da die unterschiedlichsten Projekte gemacht, durfte dann in den USA sein, durfte in allen Ländern dieser Welt Projekte umsetzen und hab dann danach Neon gegründet, 'n App Studio, was App Entwicklung macht für für Corporate, für Mittelständler, für alles Mögliche und hab dann Niels kennengelernt.",{"text":36967,"start":3764,"end":3809},"Weil Niels und das jetzt kommt die Story, Du, jetzt komme ich zu deiner Frage sozusagen zurück.",129,{"sentences":36970,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36979,"start":3813,"end":4175},[36971,36973,36975,36977],{"text":36972,"start":3813,"end":3881},"Niels ist Schweizer, hat damals in der in der Schweizer Welt als Kindermoderator sehr, sehr früh gestartet und hatte da schon immer diesen Bezug zu der Zielgruppe.",{"text":36974,"start":3884,"end":4066},"Ich damals über Youtube den Bezug zu der Zielgruppe in 'ner gewissen Form schon sehr stark und Nils hat dann Beratung für Schweizer Banken gemacht, ist dann auf diesen Markt aufmerksam geworden, hat dann ein Jahr für das Family Office im Europapark gearbeitet, deswegen kommt auch unsere Beziehung zum Europapark da zustande und er hat dann jemand gesucht, der das Ganze umsetzen kann und ist dann auf mich aufmerksam geworden.",{"text":36976,"start":4070,"end":4152},"Nils hatte die Woche, glaube ich, 3 Wochen bevor wir uns getroffen haben, haben dann darüber gesprochen Und ich hab gesagt, das ist mega, lass uns lass uns das zusammen umsetzen.",{"text":36978,"start":4152,"end":4175},"Und so ist dann die ganze Reise gestartet 2021.",137,{"sentences":36981,"speaker":88,"num_words":36986,"start":4178,"end":4265},[36982,36984],{"text":36983,"start":4178,"end":4229},"Du hast es am Anfang in sonem Halbsatz erwähnt, dass Du da so diese Youtube Videos gemacht hast Anfang der Zweitausendzehnerjahre.",{"text":36985,"start":4233,"end":4265},"Aber vielleicht für alle da draußen zur Einordnung, wie alt warst Du da?",34,{"sentences":36988,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36995,"start":4268,"end":4531},[36989,36991,36993],{"text":36990,"start":4268,"end":4299},"Ich war damals 13 oder 14, als ich damit sozusagen angefangen hab.",{"text":36992,"start":4299,"end":4453},"Also ich bin jetzt 28 und genau, da war ich muss ich 13, 14 in die Richtung gewesen sein, wo ich gestartet bin und konnte damit natürlich auch meine Jugend in 'ner gewissen Form finanzieren, weil es gab damals auch den Youtube Partnerstatus, auf den man sich bewerben konnte, war 1 der Ersten, der dann auf Werbung schalten konnte.",{"text":36994,"start":4456,"end":4531},"Und so ist das dann damals alles gestartet und hat auch für mich meiner Meinung nach die Grundpfeiler gelegt für all das, was ich jetzt liebe und gerne mache.",100,{"sentences":36997,"speaker":88,"num_words":37006,"start":4534,"end":4892},[36998,37000,37002,37004],{"text":36999,"start":4534,"end":4702},"Da ist natürlich viel, ich will nicht sagen Glück, weil ich will ja nicht euren eure Arbeit quasi runter reden, aber vielleicht glückliche Fügung irgendwie auch dabei gewesen, ja, dass jemand eine coole App Idee hat, Du schon seit Jahren quasi App gebaut hast, ihr euch zum richtigen Zeitpunkt gefunden habt, das Interesse irgendwie schon da war für die Domäne.",{"text":37001,"start":4706,"end":4848},"War das für dich schon immer so, als Du 'n App Studio aufgebaut hast, dass Du sagst, ah, ich will auch irgendwann son son richtiges eigenes Produkt und nicht nur in in Dienstleistung quasi andere Sachen entwickeln oder war das mehr so, da hat sich die Gelegenheit ergeben und ihr habt das genutzt?",{"text":37003,"start":4848,"end":4871},"Gab's da, hattest Du da 'n Plan?",{"text":37005,"start":4871,"end":4892},"Ist vielleicht die die kurze Version dieser Frage.",128,{"sentences":37008,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37019,"start":4895,"end":5585},[37009,37011,37013,37015,37017],{"text":37010,"start":4895,"end":4974},"Ich glaube, ich bin im Leben grundsätzlich sehr opportunistisch und bin der Meinung, dass sich jedem von uns im Leben so viele Türen an an jeden an jeder Stelle öffnen.",{"text":37012,"start":4974,"end":5048},"Man muss einfach nur mutig sein und und diese Wege in 'ner gewissen Form gehen und natürlich auch die Motivation haben, hart working zu sein, viele Sachen einfach weiterzuverfolgen.",{"text":37014,"start":5052,"end":5184},"Für mich war, nachdem ich viele Jahre in 'ner gewissen Form das Softwarestudio gemacht habe, für viele unterschiedliche Unternehmen einfach Produkte gebaut habe und Neon ist auch heute sehr, sehr erfolgreich, hat sich für mich einfach irgendwann der Punkt ergeben, dass ich gesagt hab, ich möchte gern einfach mal den kompletten Zyklus owen.",{"text":37016,"start":5184,"end":5222},"Also es bedeutet, als Dienstleister ist man eigentlich immer nur ein Rad im Wagen.",{"text":37018,"start":5222,"end":5585},"Man kann super Produkt bauen, aber man ist bedingt nur für den Gesamterfolg verantwortlich ehrlicherweise und dadurch, dass man eine Product Company von 0 aufbaut, hat man ja ist ja von den 45 Personen, die jetzt bei Bling arbeiten, nur 'n Teilbereich sozusagen im Productbereich angesiedelt, aber es gibt von Customer Support über HR, über Marketing, Paid Acquisition, CRM, Finance, so viele Abteilungen, die allen gigantischen Erfolg erweitert leisten, halt das Produkt erfolgreich zu machen und das wollte ich einfach mal spüren, weil wenn man sowas entsprechend aufbauen kann, dass man auch für den Gesamterfolg sozusagen des Unternehmens oder des Produktes verantwortlich und nicht nur für einen Teilbereich und zwar den Dienstleisterbereich etwas für andere zu bauen oder zu entwickeln.",246,{"sentences":37021,"speaker":88,"num_words":37031,"start":5588,"end":5840},[37022,37024,37025,37027,37029],{"text":37023,"start":5588,"end":5667},"Jetzt könnt ihr natürlich sehr von diesen ganzen Erfahrungen, die ihr mit Neon gemacht hattet, profitieren, als ihr blind gebaut habt, aber auch diese Erfahrungen kommen ja nicht von ungefähr.",{"text":594,"start":5671,"end":5672},{"text":37026,"start":5675,"end":5726},"Und Du hast gerade gesagt, Du hast direkt nach deinem Studium und deiner Zeit bei RWM quasi gegründet.",{"text":37028,"start":5730,"end":5751},"Wie waren denn da so die die Anfangsjahre?",{"text":37030,"start":5755,"end":5840},"Weil so, ne, ein Dienstleister aufzumachen ist ja das eine, die Kunden zu gewinnen und das Ganze dann irgendwie groß zu machen, ist ja das das andere, das ist ja kein Selbstläufer.",89,{"sentences":37033,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37044,"start":5844,"end":6084},[37034,37036,37038,37040,37042],{"text":37035,"start":5844,"end":5860},"Ja, da hast Du natürlich vollkommen recht.",{"text":37037,"start":5860,"end":5952},"Ich glaube, ich hatte mir damals, ich hab das zusammen mit Niklas Stenberg und meinem Co Founder bei Neon entsprechend gegründet und wir haben uns damals so die Frage gestellt, wie soll's weitergehen?",{"text":37039,"start":5952,"end":6048},"Und wir waren selbst noch Anfang 20 gewesen zu dem Zeitpunkt, wo wir das gemacht haben und wir haben halt eben gesagt, hey, wir geben uns ein Jahr jetzt und wir verfolgen ein Jahr diese Idee, dieses App Studio entsprechend aufzubauen.",{"text":37041,"start":6051,"end":6063},"Was haben wir zu verlieren?",{"text":37043,"start":6063,"end":6084},"Wir haben eine Reihe von Erfahrungen, die wir gewinnen können.",96,{"sentences":37046,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37057,"start":6084,"end":6314},[37047,37049,37051,37053,37055],{"text":37048,"start":6084,"end":6099},"Wir haben relativ geringe Lebensunterhalt.",{"text":37050,"start":6102,"end":6116},"Lass uns das doch zusammen angehen.",{"text":37052,"start":6116,"end":6217},"Wir sind zusammen nach Berlin gezogen, haben eine eine sehr, sehr große WG gemietet sozusagen, haben unser Office sozusagen in die WG gemast, also das Büro sozusagen 5, 6 Arbeitsplätze waren aus unserer Wohnung heraus.",{"text":37054,"start":6220,"end":6299},"Das war sozusagen der Weg, wie wir unser erstes Office finanziert haben und dann haben wir das Team natürlich auch in unserer Wohnung runtergebracht in 'ner gewissen Form und darüber ist das gewachsen.",{"text":37056,"start":6299,"end":6314},"Und das war natürlich ganz simpel.",85,{"sentences":37059,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37068,"start":6314,"end":6781},[37060,37062,37064,37066],{"text":37061,"start":6314,"end":6328},"Niklas und ich haben damals angefangen.",{"text":37063,"start":6331,"end":6578},"Wir haben an einem Abend einfach zufällig entschieden, Niklas macht Frontend Entwicklung, ich mach Backend Entwicklung und das war so der Zufall und seitdem ist es so geblieben und dann hat sich das Ganze näher und selbstfinanziert natürlich aufgebaut, ist dann auf entsprechend auf über 20 Mitarbeiter gewachsen und dann sehr, sehr groß geworden und ja, das war das waren so bisschen die Anfänge und das erste Jahr hat sehr gut geklappt und haben gesagt, lass es uns noch 'n weiteres Jahr machen Und so hat sich das in 'ner gewissen Form einfach entwickelt.",{"text":37065,"start":6578,"end":6748},"Und man hatte natürlich den Vorteil, dass man nicht verschuldet ist, jetzt keine keine keine erweiterte, noch keine Kinder zum Beispiel hat, keine Frau, sondern man hat gesagt, ganzes Leben war und ist halt in 'ner gewissen Form diese Arbeit und deswegen kann man da auch alles reingeben und dann kann man dafür natürlich auch leben und das Ganze auch dann entsprechend wachsen lassen.",{"text":37067,"start":6748,"end":6781},"Also der Vorteil der jungen Jahre hat da einfach sehr, sehr stark geholfen.",177,{"sentences":37070,"speaker":88,"num_words":37075,"start":6784,"end":6949},[37071,37073],{"text":37072,"start":6784,"end":6895},"Jetzt ist ja aber Neon in der Zeit gegründet, wo jetzt vielleicht die initiale Goldgräberstimmung in dem App Store schon vorbei war und nicht mehr jeder einfach nur irgendwie eine App haben wollte, sondern der Markt ja schon son bisschen gesättigter war vielleicht auch, ja.",{"text":37074,"start":6899,"end":6949},"Was waren das für Kunden und wie klein oder groß waren denn da so die Projekte, mit denen ihr da angefangen habt?",67,{"sentences":37077,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37088,"start":6952,"end":7240},[37078,37080,37082,37084,37086],{"text":37079,"start":6952,"end":7013},"Ja, das ist eine, wir haben uns halt damals sehr stark, wir haben, als wir angefangen haben, haben wir gesagt, wir probieren alle Technologien aus.",{"text":37081,"start":7013,"end":7059},"Also das bedeutet, wir haben uns damals mit Erkundung 4 Monate Zeit genommen und haben alle Technologien.",{"text":37083,"start":7059,"end":7098},"Wir haben reg Native, alle alles Mögliche, View, React, Ragnative.",{"text":37085,"start":7102,"end":7213},"Wir haben wir haben Go ausprobiert, NoGS, alles Mögliche sind wir durchgegangen und dann haben wir uns entschieden, okay, wir gehen in die Nische der Flatter App Entwicklung und ihr seid ja auch große Flatter Fans, wenn ich das Richtige in Erinnerung habe.",{"text":37087,"start":7213,"end":7240},"Ich hab euch vorhin schon mal erwähnt von 20 19.",105,{"sentences":37090,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37101,"start":7240,"end":7690},[37091,37093,37095,37097,37099],{"text":37092,"start":7240,"end":7283},"In der Anfangszeit von Neon war der programmierbar Podcast 'n großer Begleiter von mir.",{"text":37094,"start":7283,"end":7324},"Also meine meinen Start in die Selbstständigkeit habt ihr mit begleitet in 'ner gewissen Form.",{"text":37096,"start":7326,"end":7544},"Wir haben uns natürlich sehr stark auf die Nische der Flatterentwicklung spezialisiert und dadurch, dass Flatterentwicklung in der Zeit sehr groß geworden ist, das waren meiner Meinung nach so mit die besten Jahre von Flatter, also es ist sehr stark angestiegen, 2 19, 2 20 ist die Technologie groß geworden und wir waren halt eben mit dabei und deswegen haben wir für viele große Corporates, wenn die neue Küchengeräte rausbringen und es wird eine Rezepte App benötigt, dann bekommen wir den Prototypen, wir entwickeln die Rezepte App dafür.",{"text":37098,"start":7547,"end":7667},"Wenn eine News Verlage zum Beispiel sagen, hey, wir haben eine News App, wir möchten gerne eine White Label News App haben, das auf unsere 50 Zeitungen zu übertragen, dann bauen wir sozusagen die die die White Label App dafür entsprechend und das waren son bisschen die Projekte.",{"text":37100,"start":7667,"end":7690},"Da haben wir die ersten Kunden an Land gezogen.",174,{"sentences":37103,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37108,"start":7693,"end":7820},[37104,37106],{"text":37105,"start":7693,"end":7760},"Der Vorteil war aber ganz klar, dass wir gesagt haben, wir machen nur Flatter App Entwicklung und natürlich Backend Entwicklung, aber wir spezialisieren uns ausschließlich auf auf Flatter.",{"text":37107,"start":7760,"end":7820},"Mittlerweile machen wir auch mehr Technologien, aber das war natürlich unser Vorteil, den wir damals hatten, dass wir an diese Technologie so stark geglaubt haben.",53,{"sentences":37110,"speaker":88,"num_words":36693,"start":7823,"end":7873},[37111,37113],{"text":37112,"start":7823,"end":7841},"Wie wurde das bei euren Kunden aufgenommen?",{"text":37114,"start":7841,"end":7873},"Weil so in im Nachgang lässt sich natürlich immer einfach sagen, ja,",{"sentences":37116,"speaker":67,"num_words":37121,"start":7873,"end":7905},[37117,37119],{"text":37118,"start":7873,"end":7899},"da habt ihr aufs richtige Pferd gesetzt so, ja.",{"text":37120,"start":7902,"end":7905},"Aber Du",11,{"sentences":37123,"speaker":88,"num_words":37132,"start":7905,"end":8139},[37124,37126,37128,37130],{"text":37125,"start":7905,"end":7944},"hast selber gesagt, da war Flatter noch relativ jung, da hat sich viel auch getan, ja.",{"text":37127,"start":7948,"end":8028},"Musste man da Überzeugungsarbeit leisten, jemandem zu erklären, dass, ja, dieses Multiplattform Framework aus der Pause Google mit 1 Codebasis irgendwie alle Plattformen zu versorgen.",{"text":37129,"start":8028,"end":8057},"Das ist zwar noch recht jung, aber das wird schon irgendwie funktionieren.",{"text":37131,"start":8060,"end":8139},"Oder hat sich das verkauft wie geschnitten Brot, weil die Leute nur gehört haben, boah, ich muss nur einmal eine Entwicklung bezahlen und ich kann überall irgendwie meine Apps haben.",83,{"sentences":37134,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37145,"start":8141,"end":8337},[37135,37137,37139,37141,37143],{"text":37136,"start":8141,"end":8215},"Ja, wir haben halt damals so so reingestartet, dass sie halt eben gesagt haben, wir definieren bestimmte Milestones und ihr müsst uns keinen Euro vorab bezahlen.",{"text":37138,"start":8218,"end":8242},"Also das bedeutet, wir gehen komplett in den Invest rein.",{"text":37140,"start":8246,"end":8273},"Ihr bezahlt uns, wenn wir das, was wir versprochen haben, abgeliefert haben.",{"text":37142,"start":8273,"end":8301},"Ihr seid damit zufrieden, dann findet erst die Bezahlung statt.",{"text":37144,"start":8301,"end":8337},"Und das ist natürlich in dem Geschäft, in dem wir unterwegs sind, komplett unüblich.",72,{"sentences":37147,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37154,"start":8340,"end":8533},[37148,37150,37152],{"text":37149,"start":8340,"end":8470},"Also das ist normal, dass man 30, 50 Prozent vorher anzahlt, ist komplett üblich und ich glaube, da haben einfach die entsprechenden Entscheider an uns geglaubt und gesagt, wir haben ja nichts zu verlieren, lass uns das mit denen ausprobieren und wir müssen ja erst zahlen, wenn wir zufrieden sind.",{"text":37151,"start":8470,"end":8483},"Und das ist natürlich komplett unüblich.",{"text":37153,"start":8485,"end":8533},"Das funktioniert halt eben, wenn man noch sehr klein ist und umso größer man ist, hat man natürlich bestimmte Liquiditätspieaks,",76,{"sentences":37156,"speaker":88,"num_words":67,"start":8537,"end":8538},[37157],{"text":218,"start":8537,"end":8538},{"sentences":37159,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37170,"start":8538,"end":8785},[37160,37162,37164,37166,37168],{"text":37161,"start":8538,"end":8610},"man versucht, natürlich monatlich dann auszugleichen und zu schaut, dass man bestimmte Retainer reinbekommt, damit man halt eben diese starken Schwankungen nicht mehr hat.",{"text":37163,"start":8610,"end":8650},"Aber das war natürlich 1 unserer größten Vorteile damals, dass wir so in den Markt reingegangen sind.",{"text":37165,"start":8650,"end":8707},"Wir haben immer viel mit Stack Overflow argumentiert und gesagt haben, schaut euch mal an, wie die bei Stack Overflow am am sind.",{"text":37167,"start":8707,"end":8739},"Auch in den jährlichen Reports sozusagen ist ja Flatter immer größer geworden.",{"text":37169,"start":8741,"end":8785},"Es war insgesamt ist Flatter viel, viel günstiger zu entwickeln, als wenn ich Android und iOS entwickle.",93,{"sentences":37172,"speaker":1436,"num_words":753,"start":8785,"end":8956},[37173,37175,37177,37179],{"text":37174,"start":8785,"end":8806},"Ich hab die doppelten Bugs potenziell.",{"text":37176,"start":8806,"end":8829},"Ich brauch die doppelte Zahl in Entwicklern.",{"text":37178,"start":8833,"end":8860},"Ich brauch viel mehr Produktmanagement und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37180,"start":8860,"end":8956},"Das sind natürlich von Cross Plattformen, ja, ist man da natürlich sehr sehr stark finanziell im Vorteil und natürlich, wie wir auch damals die Abwicklung gemacht haben, war das natürlich unser unser Weg in in die jeweiligen Unternehmen rein.",{"sentences":37182,"speaker":88,"num_words":37187,"start":8958,"end":9129},[37183,37185],{"text":37184,"start":8958,"end":9102},"Aber es war schon so, dass das in der Diskussion eine Rolle gespielt hat oder war die Technologieentscheidung da komplett euch überlassen und die Kunden haben gesagt, so hör mal, ich will hier diese News App und ob ihr die mit diesem Flatter oder oder Swift oder irgendwas anderes baut, ist mir eigentlich komplett egal.",{"text":37186,"start":9102,"end":9129},"Hauptsache, die steht am Ende für den richtigen Preis.",64,{"sentences":37189,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37196,"start":9132,"end":9430},[37190,37192,37194],{"text":37191,"start":9132,"end":9233},"Ja, ich glaub, es ging vielen einfach da drum, dass wir sehr stark dieses White Label Produkt dann zum Beispiel bei den News Apps verkauft haben und wir haben natürlich dann auch in dem Zusammenhang die komplette CACD Pipeline mit verkauft.",{"text":37193,"start":9237,"end":9331},"Das bedeutet, dass Du wirklich diese die Single Coobase hast und sozusagen und automatisiert in die jeweiligen App Store Accounts die App Updates ausrollen kannst auf 50 Apps verteilt und alles, was damit zusammentun.",{"text":37195,"start":9331,"end":9430},"Und dann hat das Gesamtsystem, was wir uns überlegt haben, einfach Sinn gemacht, weil es so viel günstiger war als die Bestandslösungen entsprechend und so viel moderner, dass wir halt eben mit diesem Gesamtpaket einfach überzeugen konnten.",112,{"sentences":37198,"speaker":88,"num_words":37209,"start":9433,"end":9758},[37199,37201,37203,37205,37207],{"text":37200,"start":9433,"end":9475},"Du hast auch gesagt, ihr habt euch, bevor ihr bei Flatter angekommen seid, super viele andere Sachen angeguckt.",{"text":37202,"start":9479,"end":9510},"Und das ist ja eigentlich für einen CTO 'n sehr wichtiges Skillset.",{"text":37204,"start":9514,"end":9595},"So, einmal die komplette Breite an irgendwie Technologien sich anschauen zu können und dann aber auch sehr genau und zeitnah entscheiden zu können, okay, worauf setzen wir denn jetzt hier und und warum.",{"text":37206,"start":9599,"end":9619},"Wie war da so die die Lernkurve für dich?",{"text":37208,"start":9619,"end":9758},"Weil ich mein, natürlich hast Du im Studium auch schon viel gesehen und bei RBM bestimmt auch, ja, aber trotzdem ist das ja vielleicht dann noch mal was anderes, weil man das erste Mal in eigener Verantwortung da ist, vor einem Haufen neuer Technologien steht, die vielleicht auch alle noch nicht so sind, ja.",126,{"sentences":37211,"speaker":88,"num_words":36739,"start":9758,"end":9847},[37212,37214],{"text":37213,"start":9758,"end":9788},"Und dann jetzt aber auf einmal entscheiden muss so, welches nehmen wir denn?",{"text":37215,"start":9788,"end":9847},"So, wie hast Du dich unabhängig von der Entscheidung, die ihr jetzt zu flatter getroffen habt, aber wie bist Du da so methodisch vorgegangen?",{"sentences":37217,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37187,"start":9850,"end":10020},[37218,37220,37222,37224,37226],{"text":37219,"start":9850,"end":9869},"Ich glaub, das mache ich heute immer noch so.",{"text":37221,"start":9872,"end":9899},"Wir suchen immer die Sache, die es am schwierigsten umzusetzen ist.",{"text":37223,"start":9899,"end":9955},"Also es bedeutet, man baut 'n neues Produkt und sagt, was ist der Teil, der Teilbereich, der superschwierig ist umzusetzen?",{"text":37225,"start":9955,"end":10008},"Was ist dieser Schlüsselpunkt, wo ich nicht weiß, das könnte einen Tag dauern, aber es könnte auch 3 Monate dauern.",{"text":37227,"start":10012,"end":10020},"Was ist dieser Punkt?",{"sentences":37229,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37170,"start":10024,"end":10274},[37230,37232,37234,37236],{"text":37231,"start":10024,"end":10098},"Und diesen Punkt sozusagen nur diesen kleinen Spezifipip Punkt MVP Style mit unterschiedlichen Frameworks, mit unterschiedlichen Technologien umsetzen und schauen, bekomme ich das damit abgebildet?",{"text":37233,"start":10102,"end":10120},"Funktioniert das so, wie ich mir das vorstelle?",{"text":37235,"start":10123,"end":10172},"Und wenn es klappt, dann ist das für mich immer son bisschen das Zeichen, okay, das können wir wirklich einsetzen.",{"text":37237,"start":10172,"end":10274},"Also wirklich nach den extremen Edge Cases suchen und zu sagen, was ich nicht mag, ist, wenn plötzlich Überraschungen kommen und deswegen versuch ich halt eben die Edge Cases vorher zu suchen und da waren sozusagen die Technologie zu messen.",{"sentences":37239,"speaker":67,"num_words":36787,"start":10274,"end":10282},[37240],{"text":37241,"start":10274,"end":10282},"Weißt Du dann,",{"sentences":37243,"speaker":1436,"num_words":1436,"start":10282,"end":10289},[37244],{"text":37245,"start":10282,"end":10289},"was das",{"sentences":37247,"speaker":67,"num_words":36835,"start":10289,"end":10305},[37248],{"text":37249,"start":10289,"end":10305},"war damals, flotter zu validieren?",{"sentences":37251,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37262,"start":10309,"end":10581},[37252,37254,37256,37258,37260],{"text":37253,"start":10309,"end":10385},"Ich glaub, das waren damals an die Plattformchannels zum Beispiel zu schauen, okay, bekomme ich wirklich auch alles in 'ner gewissen Form nativ eingebunden, was ich möchte und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37255,"start":10387,"end":10454},"Und auch heute bei Bling setzen wir, wir haben ja bei uns bei Bling nicht nur unsere App in Flatter, sondern auch unser komplett komplettes Backoffice Tooling.",{"text":37257,"start":10454,"end":10500},"Also man muss sich vorstellen, dadurch, dass wir die Services anbieten, müssen ja Karten gesperrt werden.",{"text":37259,"start":10500,"end":10543},"Wir müssen KOSCs machen, also Nutzerverifizierung, Transaktionen, Fraud, alles Mögliche, die ganze Bandbreite.",{"text":37261,"start":10547,"end":10581},"Auch das haben wir als macOS Applikationen zum Beispiel nativ bei uns gebaut.",102,{"sentences":37264,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37267,"start":10581,"end":10688},[37265],{"text":37266,"start":10581,"end":10688},"Also wir sind da sehr tief im Stack drin und bis heute hab ich für uns keinen Use Case gefunden, den wir nicht irgendwie mit Flatter gelöst bekommen haben und deswegen sind wir auch superhappy auch heute noch mit der Technologie.",41,{"sentences":37269,"speaker":67,"num_words":36739,"start":10691,"end":10787},[37270,37272],{"text":37271,"start":10691,"end":10733},"Weil Du jetzt gerade diesen flüssigen Übergang inzwischen hast, nur, sagen wir mal kurz, einzuordnen.",{"text":37273,"start":10733,"end":10787},"Also das heißt, Du hast noch was mit Neon zu tun aktuell und Neon hat aber auch irgendwas mit Bling zu tun?",{"sentences":37275,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37286,"start":10790,"end":11063},[37276,37278,37280,37282,37284],{"text":37277,"start":10790,"end":10843},"Es ist so, dass wir mit Neon damals den die erste Version von von Blinks sozusagen angeschoben haben in 'ner gewissen Form.",{"text":37279,"start":10843,"end":10891},"Also das bedeutet, wir hatten ja das Developerteam und konnten da natürlich sagen, okay, wir bauen damit entsprechend die erste Version.",{"text":37281,"start":10894,"end":10913},"Das war son bisschen unser Ziel und Neon selbst.",{"text":37283,"start":10918,"end":10980},"Sowohl Niklas und ich sind natürlich in Bling involviert und das bedeutet, die sind relativ nah, die Unternehmen, aber es sind eigentlich komplett getrennte Unternehmen.",{"text":37285,"start":10980,"end":11063},"Also es bedeutet, manchmal haben wir Projekte, zum Beispiel launchen wir jetzt grade entsprechend Bling for Schools, also unsere Blingmensa Lösung und jetzt ist Dezember, es soll im Januar live gehen.",108,{"sentences":37288,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37031,"start":11066,"end":11298},[37289,37291,37293],{"text":37290,"start":11066,"end":11145},"Wir brauchen noch zusätzliche Entwickler, dann haben wir natürlich zusätzliche Entwickler von Neon noch an Bord, die jetzt grade in der finalen Phase unterstützen, aber sonst ist es getrennt.",{"text":37292,"start":11148,"end":11235},"Neon lebt und lebt im alten Office von Beling und Beling ist 'n neues Office umgezogen, aber an sich sind es getrennte Unternehmen, die aber natürlich durch mich in 'ner gewissen Form miteinander verbunden sind.",{"text":37294,"start":11237,"end":11298},"Auch wenn ich operativ sozusagen bei Neon nicht mehr involviert bin und super-, superhappy bin, dass Nicklas das so extrem gut bei Neon alles managt.",{"sentences":37296,"speaker":88,"num_words":698,"start":11302,"end":11473},[37297,37299,37301,37303,37305],{"text":37298,"start":11302,"end":11325},"Dann versuchen wir noch mal, diesen Übergang mitzunehmen.",{"text":37300,"start":11328,"end":11353},"Ich glaube, es gibt in Softwareentwicklungen so 3 Königsdisziplinen.",{"text":37302,"start":11357,"end":11390},"Und Dennis darf nicht beleidigt sein, wenn ich sag, dass Gaming nicht dazugehört.",{"text":37304,"start":11394,"end":11420},"Und zwar geht es da wie kritisch Software ist.",{"text":37306,"start":11423,"end":11473},"So und die die unterste Stufe ist für mich immer so alles, was mit Logistik zu tun hat oder Fertigung.",{"sentences":37308,"speaker":88,"num_words":37319,"start":11473,"end":11678},[37309,37311,37313,37315,37317],{"text":37310,"start":11473,"end":11498},"So, da da passiert was in der realen Welt.",{"text":37312,"start":11502,"end":11564},"So, wenn Du Software baust, da wird 'n Paket verschickt, da bewegt sich 'n Roboter und macht was auf der Fertigungsstraße, keine Ahnung.",{"text":37314,"start":11567,"end":11606},"Der Zweite, und da kommen wir nämlich jetzt hier zu Leon, ist immer wenn's Geld geht.",{"text":37316,"start":11606,"end":11649},"Das ist alles, was was mit Fintech, mit Finanzprodukten und so weiter zu tun hat.",{"text":37318,"start":11651,"end":11678},"Und da hab ich immer son gewissen Respekt vorgehabt, ja.",73,{"sentences":37321,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":11680,"end":11704},[37322,37324],{"text":37323,"start":11680,"end":11694},"Wie war das für dich, Leo?",{"text":37325,"start":11694,"end":11704},"Du hast Ach,",{"sentences":37327,"speaker":67,"num_words":36749,"start":11704,"end":11753},[37328,37330],{"text":37329,"start":11704,"end":11733},"schon, Moment, Du hast von 3 Stufen schon, oder?",{"text":37331,"start":11733,"end":11753},"Ja, die letzte Gaming ganz oben nach.",{"sentences":37333,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36732,"start":11753,"end":11779},[37334,37336],{"text":37335,"start":11753,"end":11775},"Ja, die Dritte ist natürlich Gaming, oder?",{"text":37337,"start":11775,"end":11779},"Also ich",{"sentences":37339,"speaker":88,"num_words":37350,"start":11782,"end":12153},[37340,37342,37344,37346,37348],{"text":37341,"start":11782,"end":11848},"Die Dritte ist natürlich Gaming, wenn man unter Gaming versteht, alles, was so im medizinischen Bereich ist, wo's vielleicht so Leben und Tod geht, ja.",{"text":37343,"start":11848,"end":11890},"Wenn Du Firmware fürn Herzschrittmacher baust oder so was, das ist vielleicht auch ganz relevant.",{"text":37345,"start":11894,"end":11921},"Aber das ist dann, glaub ich, noch mal eine ganz andere Kategorie.",{"text":37347,"start":11921,"end":12074},"Aber also trotzdem, meine Frage war, Du hast eben schon erzählt, wie ihr son bisschen auf die Idee gekommen seid, aber trotzdem stell ich mir das als Entwickler schon noch mal als sonen größeren Sprung vor zu sagen, na ja, jetzt übernehm ich hier mit meiner Software Verantwortung für für Geld und Finanzplanung von anderen Menschen, die da auf mich angewiesen sind.",{"text":37349,"start":12076,"end":12153},"War das Teil deiner Reflexion oder habt ihr einfach gesagt, oh, ist 'n geiles Produkt, da haben wir Lust drauf, das machen wir, das wird schon irgendwie funktionieren?",142,{"sentences":37352,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37363,"start":12157,"end":12520},[37353,37355,37357,37359,37361],{"text":37354,"start":12157,"end":12187},"Ich glaub, es war von Anfang an, glaub ich, eine eine superschöne Herausforderung.",{"text":37356,"start":12187,"end":12251},"Es macht unfassbar viel Spaß, damit zu arbeiten, einfach aus dem Grund, dass man auch sieht, dass sie in jeder Sekunde gerade Zahlungen stattfinden.",{"text":37358,"start":12254,"end":12348},"Also das Ich find das 'n total verrücktes Gefühl persönlich, dass an jedem Ort dieser Welt man es eigentlich gerade ermöglicht, dass Kinder, Jugendliche, aber auch Erwachsene sozusagen überall auf dieser Welt grade bezahlen können.",{"text":37360,"start":12350,"end":12438},"Natürlich macht man sich da einfach noch mal viel, viel stärker Gedanken dadrum, wie man bestimmte Services aufsplittet, wie man die vielleicht auf unterschiedliche AWS Regionen verteilt und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37362,"start":12438,"end":12520},"Da ist man natürlich schon schon schon macht man sich sehr, sehr viele Gedanken da dran, aber es ist schon ehrlicherweise alles lösbar und sehr gut lösbar meiner Meinung nach und ich ich liebe diese Herausforderung.",141,{"sentences":37365,"speaker":67,"num_words":36806,"start":12522,"end":12548},[37366],{"text":37367,"start":12522,"end":12548},"Ihr habt, oder vielleicht eine, fangen wir alles drauf an.",{"sentences":37369,"speaker":88,"num_words":37374,"start":12551,"end":12631},[37370,37372],{"text":37371,"start":12551,"end":12579},"Du hast grad gesagt, ihr habt zusammen mit Neon dann quasi Bling angeschoben.",{"text":37373,"start":12583,"end":12631},"Was war so der erste MVP, den ihr zur Tür rausgeschickt habt und wie habt ihr euch auf den geeinigt?",33,{"sentences":37376,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37387,"start":12634,"end":12949},[37377,37379,37381,37383,37385],{"text":37378,"start":12634,"end":12707},"Das Thema ist natürlich, dass Du ja gleichzeitig, während Du die Entwicklung machst, in 'ner gewissen Form hast Du ja auch reguläre Themen, die sozusagen gleichzeitig losstarten.",{"text":37380,"start":12710,"end":12772},"Also es bedeutet, Du hast ja bestimmte Prozesse, die Du implementieren musst und Du hast natürlich regulatorische Anforderungen zum Beispiel, die Du auch erfüllen musst.",{"text":37382,"start":12772,"end":12891},"Und bei uns war dann am eher am Ende das Thema sozusagen, dass der regulatorische Prozess länger gedauert hat als der Entwicklungsprozess des MBPs in 'ner gewissen Form, was bedeutet, dass wir sozusagen schon mit 'nem sehr guten Funktionsumfang am Ende einfach live gehen konnten.",{"text":37384,"start":12891,"end":12916},"Wir haben uns natürlich sehr stark auf das Taschengeld fokussiert.",{"text":37386,"start":12916,"end":12949},"Mobilfunk und alles andere, was wir im Portfolio haben, gab es damals noch nicht.",121,{"sentences":37389,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37400,"start":12949,"end":13258},[37390,37392,37394,37396,37398],{"text":37391,"start":12949,"end":12989},"Wir hatten schon Gedanken dazu, aber es waren natürlich noch ganz, ganz weit in der Zukunft.",{"text":37393,"start":12993,"end":13099},"Aber natürlich konnte man bei uns die kompletten Kernprozesse abbilden, also die Karte bestellen, damit bezahlen, Limits einstellen, Sparbereich, auf unterschiedliche in in unterschiedlichen Sparbereichen Sparzielen, das Ganze anlegen und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37395,"start":13099,"end":13190},"Das gab es natürlich damals alles schon, aber bei uns war's dann am Ende der regulatorische Prozess, der sozusagen ein, 2 Monate länger gedauert hat und der der School live in 'ner gewissen Form bestimmt hat.",{"text":37397,"start":13190,"end":13209},"Das ist natürlich bei euch zum Beispiel ganz anders.",{"text":37399,"start":13209,"end":13258},"Wenn ihr eine App live bringt, dann seid ihr euer eigenes Hindernis, euer eigener Blocker in 'ner gewissen Form.",115,{"sentences":37402,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37413,"start":13258,"end":13510},[37403,37405,37407,37409,37411],{"text":37404,"start":13258,"end":13289},"Das bedeutet, ihr könnt sagen, wir bringen das raus und dann bringt ihr das raus.",{"text":37406,"start":13289,"end":13404},"Und die App Entwicklung zum Beispiel im Gaming Bereich macht superviel Spaß, einfach aus dem Grund, dass man ein Team loslassen kann und das Team, den wir wahrscheinlich auf dem Weg, auf so wie ihr strukturiert seid wahrscheinlich, sehr wenige Blocker auf dem Weg auf den Weg kommen.",{"text":37408,"start":13404,"end":13444},"Also das Team entwickelt und entwickelt, hat gewisse Freiheiten in den Frameworks, die ihr natürlich habt.",{"text":37410,"start":13447,"end":13485},"Bei uns haben wir natürlich immer wieder liege- und Compliance Themen auf auf der Strecke.",{"text":37412,"start":13485,"end":13510},"Wir haben Partner, mit denen wir bestimmte Sachen abstimmen müssen.",104,{"sentences":37415,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37424,"start":13510,"end":13745},[37416,37418,37420,37422],{"text":37417,"start":13510,"end":13592},"Es ist teilweise noch eine sehr alte Industrie sozusagen, bestimmte Sachen lassen sich auf nur auf Umwege technisch lösen, weil die Schnittstellen nicht da sind und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37419,"start":13592,"end":13624},"Das bedeutet, mein Ziel ist es immer zu schauen, dass ich die Teams entblockiere.",{"text":37421,"start":13628,"end":13688},"Ich bin in 'ner gewissen Form dafür da, dass es keine Blocker oder möglichst wenige Blocker auf der Strecke gibt und dass die Teams möglichst gut arbeiten können.",{"text":37423,"start":13688,"end":13745},"Das bedeutet, oft sind es die Themen außen rum, die dann einen Launch zum Beispiel verschieben und weniger die eigentliche Entwicklungsleistung.",94,{"sentences":37426,"speaker":88,"num_words":37437,"start":13749,"end":14050},[37427,37429,37431,37433,37435],{"text":37428,"start":13749,"end":13796},"Jetzt habt ihr ja aber wahrscheinlich auch das Rad nicht komplett neu erfunden, weil ihr seid ja keine eigene Bank.",{"text":37430,"start":13796,"end":13870},"Ich nehm an, ihr habt da 'n Dienstleister für, ja, der sich so was wie Kartenausgabe, Kontoführung und so weiter kümmert, mit dem ihr dann da zusammenarbeitet.",{"text":37432,"start":13873,"end":13901},"Wie viel musstet ihr trotzdem an diesen ganzen Prozessen neu schaffen?",{"text":37434,"start":13901,"end":13968},"Du hast eben grade schon son paar genannt, ne, aber auch einfach so was wie Kontoerstellungen, Karten ausgeben, Konto sperren lassen, bla.",{"text":37436,"start":13968,"end":14050},"Also das sind ja alles Sachen, die, ich sag mal, die die im im im Finanzgeschäft eigentlich so sind, ja, aber die ja jeder für sich irgendwie doch wieder neu entwickeln muss wahrscheinlich.",113,{"sentences":37439,"speaker":88,"num_words":37442,"start":14054,"end":14150},[37440],{"text":37441,"start":14054,"end":14150},"Oder konntet ihr euch wirklich so voll und ganz auf die Featureentwicklung konzentrieren, wie hier Sparfunktion und so weiter, weil der ganze finanzielle Teil doch wirklich komplett schon abgedeckt ist mit bestehenden Backoffistools oder so was.",36,{"sentences":37444,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37075,"start":14154,"end":14330},[37445,37446,37448,37450,37452],{"text":14158,"start":14154,"end":14155},{"text":37447,"start":14160,"end":14215},"Also zum Start haben wir stärker sozusagen, also wir sind bei, die Bankkonten bei uns sozusagen liegen bei der Socity General.",{"text":37449,"start":14215,"end":14260},"Also bedeutet, ist eine ist eine sehr, sehr 1 der größten französischen Banken, die die es gibt.",{"text":37451,"start":14263,"end":14298},"Und da liegt sozusagen das Geld, wenn man sich das in der Form vorstellen will.",{"text":37453,"start":14298,"end":14330},"Das bedeutet, wir sind grundsätzlich französisch und deutsch reguliert in 'ner gewissen Form.",{"sentences":37455,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37466,"start":14330,"end":14719},[37456,37458,37460,37462,37464],{"text":37457,"start":14330,"end":14441},"Mit Europa sozusagen ist das möglich und genau, wir haben in Deutschland keine eigene Bankenlizenz, sondern die SourSu d'Aéqé de General hat sozusagen die Bankenlizenz entsprechend in Frankreich und ihre Sub Company, mit der arbeiten wir entsprechend zusammen.",{"text":37459,"start":14444,"end":14481},"Am Anfang ist es so, dass wir große Teile oder so viel wie möglich versucht haben auszulagern.",{"text":37461,"start":14485,"end":14513},"Mittlerweile ist es so, dass wir mehr und mehr Prozesse bei uns inkludieren.",{"text":37463,"start":14517,"end":14621},"Also es bedeutet, dass wir zum Beispiel 'n Großteil von den Themen mittlerweile auch auf unserer Seite entsprechend abwickeln und tun, weil wir einfach gemerkt haben, dass wir damit versuchen, die externen Abhängigkeit in 'ner gewissen Form zu reduzieren.",{"text":37465,"start":14621,"end":14719},"Das bedeutet, dass wir bestimmte Partner einbinden und so weiter und so fort, wenn das für uns möglich ist und direkt mit denen zusammenarbeiten, weil uns es einfach mehr Freiheiten gibt und halt eben diese Blocker in 'ner gewissen Form entsprechend removed.",149,{"sentences":37468,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37479,"start":14722,"end":15128},[37469,37471,37473,37475,37477],{"text":37470,"start":14722,"end":14881},"Wir sind da natürlich unseren französischen Partnern sehr, sehr dankbar und das klappt auch klappt auch super, aber natürlich ist es so, dass wir versuchen mehr und mehr Prozesse, wo man am Anfang sehr, sehr stark Sachen ausgelagert hat, versucht man die halt über die Jahre viel stärker zu sich zu bringen und die Wertschöpfung auch von den tiefergehenden Banking Prozessen halt eben bei sich entsprechend zu haben.",{"text":37472,"start":14881,"end":14955},"Also das bedeutet, wenn heute zum Beispiel eine Kartentransaktion stattfindet, dann entscheiden wir zum Beispiel innerhalb von einhundert Millisekunden, ob die Kartentransaktion durchgeht oder nicht durchgeht zum Beispiel.",{"text":37474,"start":14958,"end":14999},"Das sind zum Beispiel so Prozesse, die waren früher beim Start von Bingen waren die bei unserem Partner.",{"text":37476,"start":15002,"end":15013},"Mittlerweile sind diese Prozesse bei uns.",{"text":37478,"start":15013,"end":15128},"Also es bedeutet, ja, bei uns kommt der API Request rein, wir machen unsere Logiken und entscheiden dann, okay, wir lassen das durch oder wir lassen die Kartentransaktion halt eben nicht durch, wenn eine Person grade am Terminal steht und ganz dringend bezahlen will.",164,{"sentences":37481,"speaker":88,"num_words":37484,"start":15130,"end":15284},[37482],{"text":37483,"start":15130,"end":15284},"Das heißt, ich ich muss mir das so vorstellen, dass diese ganzen Features wie jetzt eine Prüfung von den Transaktionen oder weiß ich nicht, Sperrung von der Karte, das kann ich als Dienstleistung bei meinem Partner buchen oder ich kann es selbst implementieren und ihr seid dann quasi im Laufe der Zeit immer mehr von dem einen Spektrum zum anderen gewandert?",61,{"sentences":37486,"speaker":1436,"num_words":698,"start":15287,"end":15429},[37487,37489,37491],{"text":37488,"start":15287,"end":15292},"Genau, richtig.",{"text":37490,"start":15292,"end":15361},"Also wir haben immer stärker gesagt, dass wir die Sachen gerne bei uns haben möchten, weil wir da natürlich auch eine höhere Flexibilität haben und die Abhängigkeiten reduzieren.",{"text":37492,"start":15361,"end":15429},"Dass wir versuchen, da, wo wir die Abhängigkeiten brauchen, haben wir sie und da, wo wir sie nicht zwingend brauchen, versuchen wir halt das entsprechend bei uns zu lösen.",{"sentences":37494,"speaker":67,"num_words":36767,"start":15433,"end":15473},[37495],{"text":37496,"start":15433,"end":15473},"Darfst Du den Hauptgrund nennen, warum ihr euch für die Society General entschieden habt?",{"sentences":37498,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37088,"start":15475,"end":15739},[37499,37501,37503,37505,37507],{"text":37500,"start":15475,"end":15505},"Es gibt gar nicht so viele Player, die das die das ehrlicherweise machen.",{"text":37502,"start":15507,"end":15540},"Das bedeutet, es gibt Swan zum Beispiel noch, die das in Frankreich zum Beispiel machen.",{"text":37504,"start":15540,"end":15592},"Es gibt die Solaris Bank in Deutschland, die das entsprechend noch macht und es gibt noch ein, 2 andere, die das machen.",{"text":37506,"start":15594,"end":15684},"Für uns war damals die Entscheidung gewesen, dass für uns die Treasor, das ist der Partner, den wir haben, die Sub Company sozusagen von der SoCity General, auf unseren Use Case und unsere Anforderungen am eingehen konnte.",{"text":37508,"start":15684,"end":15739},"Also da ist das höchste Maß an und auch eigenen Projekten, die man bei dem Partner aufmachen kann.",{"sentences":37510,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37519,"start":15739,"end":16033},[37511,37513,37515,37517],{"text":37512,"start":15739,"end":15804},"Also das bedeutet, wir können 'n Projekt bei der Partner öffnen und dann findet auf der Seite auch Custom Implementierung für uns entsprechend statt.",{"text":37514,"start":15806,"end":15923},"Das ist da halt eben komplett möglich und bei den anderen Anbietern ist es halt eben einfach so, dass da teilweise unflexibler das Pricing sehr, sehr teuer ist, dass es schwierig ist, da 'n profitables Geschäftsmodell drauf aufzubauen und manche natürlich auch sehr stark extern finanziert sind.",{"text":37516,"start":15923,"end":16002},"Und das ist natürlich bei 'nem Partner wie der Socity General ist das einen jahrhunderteralter Partner, der der sehr sehr stabil ist und auch nicht auf externe Finanzierungsrunden angewiesen ist.",{"text":37518,"start":16005,"end":16033},"Das waren son bisschen die Gründe, warum wir uns damals dafür entschieden haben.",114,{"sentences":37521,"speaker":88,"num_words":37532,"start":16035,"end":16360},[37522,37524,37526,37528,37530],{"text":37523,"start":16035,"end":16092},"Du sprichst da 'n coolen Punkt an, die die Fremdfinanzierung und oder das Vertrauen, den man da in sonen Partner haben muss.",{"text":37525,"start":16094,"end":16125},"Euch geht es ja im Prinzip vis-à-vis euren Kunden nicht anders, ne.",{"text":37527,"start":16125,"end":16165},"Also ihr seid ein neuer Player oder ein junger Player, sagen wir mal, vielleicht so an dem Markt.",{"text":37529,"start":16168,"end":16285},"Und wenn jetzt die Eltern da draußen überlegen, ob sie dem Kind, weiß nicht, die erste Bezahlkarte bei der heimischen Sparkasse oder so was einrichten oder eben bei euch, seid ihr bestimmt, was das Featuret angeht, da deutlich attraktiver, aber eben noch nicht so etabliert.",{"text":37531,"start":16288,"end":16360},"Wie war das für euch insbesondere am Anfang, die ersten Kunden von euch dem Konzept und der App zu überzeugen, ohne einen Track Record zu haben im Prinzip?",125,{"sentences":37534,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37400,"start":16363,"end":16636},[37535,37537,37539,37541,37543],{"text":37536,"start":16363,"end":16374},"Ist eine sehr gute Frage.",{"text":37538,"start":16376,"end":16542},"Es hat, also wenn ich mir die Wachstumszahlen anschaue von damals, ist das eine, der hat mir natürlich son bisschen so Warteliste, von der haben wir nach dem Launch in 'ner gewissen Formsidee gewachsen und dann hat es sich sehr stark selbst verbreitet, weil es halt eben insgesamt nur sehr wenige oder in Deutschland gibt es aktuell kein zweites Spling in dieser Form, was was das abbilden kann.",{"text":37540,"start":16542,"end":16571},"Das bedeutet, das ist auch unser großer Vorteil, dass es keinen weiteren Player gibt.",{"text":37542,"start":16571,"end":16596},"Ich kann natürlich ganz normal zu den klassischen Banken und das öffnen.",{"text":37544,"start":16596,"end":16636},"Ich muss vor Ort hingehen, muss mit beiden meinen Eltern teilen dahin, das da zu öffnen.",{"sentences":37546,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37557,"start":16636,"end":16979},[37547,37549,37551,37553,37555],{"text":37548,"start":16636,"end":16716},"Dann habe ich möglicherweise gar keine habe ich möglicherweise gar keine Visa oder Mastercard entsprechend, sondern nur eine EC Karte, kann die nicht online einsetzen und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37550,"start":16718,"end":16780},"Ist natürlich son bisschen abhängig von Bank zu Bank, aber das war ein Angebot, wo wir gemerkt haben, dass der Product Market fit super da ist.",{"text":37552,"start":16780,"end":16885},"Also das war wirklich 'n Thema gewesen, wenn man son bisschen Start ups hat und hat das Gefühl, okay, findet man den Product Market fit, funktioniert Man ist einfach in eine Zielgruppe reingestoßen, direkt am Anfang von Leuten, die genau nach so was gesucht haben.",{"text":37554,"start":16889,"end":16931},"Digitales Banking für für für Kinder und Jugendliche, für die Familie, das eben alles vereinen zu können.",{"text":37556,"start":16934,"end":16979},"Das möglichst einfach in Echtzeit aufladen, mit der Man kann mit der eigenen Kreditkarte in Echtzeit aufladen.",136,{"sentences":37559,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37570,"start":16982,"end":17227},[37560,37562,37564,37566,37568],{"text":37561,"start":16982,"end":17009},"Man kann das Geld hin- und her transferieren innerhalb der Familie.",{"text":37563,"start":17009,"end":17022},"Man kann das Taschengeld planen.",{"text":37565,"start":17022,"end":17030},"Man hat den Sparbereich.",{"text":37567,"start":17033,"end":17153},"Man hat all diese ganzen Funktionen und wir sind ja ein bezahltes Produkt, also es gibt ja kein kostenloses Blining in 'ner gewissen Form, dass wir einfach gemerkt haben, dass der Product Marketit da ist und dass die Leute einfach Lust da drauf haben, das halt eben zu nutzen.",{"text":37569,"start":17156,"end":17227},"Des Weiteren ist es ja so, dass wir allgemein mit den Kundengeldern in 'ner gewissen Form wie das jetzt eine Bank macht, die das irgendwo anliegt oder investiert.",97,{"sentences":37572,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37400,"start":17230,"end":17522},[37573,37575,37577,37579,37581],{"text":37574,"start":17230,"end":17277},"Es ist ja bei uns so, dass wir das Geld, was die Kunden entsprechend einzahlen, ist auch zu jeder Zeit da.",{"text":37576,"start":17277,"end":17399},"Also es ist ja nicht in irgend 'ner Form, wie es vielleicht im normalen BR Bankengeschäft halt nötig ist, indem Kredite ausgegeben werden und so weiter und so fort, man halt die mit dem mit den Kundengeldern arbeitet, wird ja bei Bling nicht mit den Kundengeldern gearbeitet.",{"text":37578,"start":17399,"end":17450},"Also das bedeutet, wenn ich 100 Euro überweise, dann sind die 100 Euro zu jedem Zeitpunkt immer entsprechend natürlich da.",{"text":37580,"start":17452,"end":17471},"Das ist natürlich auch noch mal 'n großer Unterschied.",{"text":37582,"start":17474,"end":17522},"Das bedeutet, die Sorge, dass sollte irgendetwas passieren, die gibt das halt sozusagen in der Form gar nicht.",{"sentences":37584,"speaker":88,"num_words":37587,"start":17524,"end":17593},[37585],{"text":37586,"start":17524,"end":17593},"Das heißt, im Umkehrschluss aber auch, dass euer einziger Revenuestream die monatliche Gebühr für die Konten ist, weil eben nicht mit dem Geld arbeitet?",24,{"sentences":37589,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37600,"start":17596,"end":17914},[37590,37592,37594,37596,37598],{"text":37591,"start":17596,"end":17600},"Ja, genau.",{"text":37593,"start":17600,"end":17728},"Also es ist natürlich, es ist eine ganze das allgemein das Modell ist der Großteil sozusagen der Gebühren, die wir bekommen, ist zum Beispiel durch die Mobilfunkpläne, die wir haben, durch die Taschengeldprodukte, also die was Kunden aktiv für die Nutzung der Services in der Form natürlich zahlen.",{"text":37595,"start":17732,"end":17830},"Sonst gibt es natürlich noch ganz viele andere Gebührenstrukturen, zum Beispiel Mastercard und Visa, vielleicht kennt ihr das selbst, haben gewisse Händlergebühren, dann gibt es 'n bestimmten Interchange, den man in 'ner gewissen Form zurück Stimmt, ja.",{"text":37597,"start":17833,"end":17859},"Erstattet bekommt vom Zahlungsvolumen und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37599,"start":17859,"end":17914},"Das bedeutet insgesamt, es ist 'n sehr komplexes Kostenmodell, aber auch die Einnahmen sozusagen splitten sich auf relativ viele Streams auf.",118,{"sentences":37602,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37587,"start":17917,"end":17978},[37603],{"text":37604,"start":17917,"end":17978},"Es ist aber so, dass die die Gebühren oder die die Subscription Fees, die wir entsprechend erfassen, das natürlich den Großteil unseres Umsatzes ausmacht.",{"sentences":37606,"speaker":88,"num_words":36912,"start":17981,"end":18295},[37607,37609,37611,37613,37615],{"text":37608,"start":17981,"end":18057},"Jetzt hast Du ja grade schon angesprochen, was ihr alles neben der Bezahlkarte noch macht mit Mobilfunk, mit Sparanlage, Nachhilfe hab ich gesehen, gibt's auch so, ja.",{"text":37610,"start":18059,"end":18120},"Wie schaut ihr euch das an und wie überlegt ihr euch so, also wann wann strecken wir uns vielleicht auch 'n bisschen zu dünn oder zu sehr?",{"text":37612,"start":18120,"end":18157},"Weil das ja schon son sehr diverses Portfolio, was ihr da versucht abzudecken, ja.",{"text":37614,"start":18159,"end":18260},"Wenn ich jetzt überlege, ihr ihr ihr kommt aus dem klassischen App bauen und jetzt seid ihr in 1 vielleicht für euch erst mal sehr fremden Domäne und sobald ihr euch da anfangt wohlzufühlen, streckt ihr euch da immer weiter.",{"text":37616,"start":18263,"end":18295},"Wie wie trefft ihr da so Entscheidungen, was ihr macht und was ihr nicht macht?",{"sentences":37618,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37623,"start":18298,"end":18372},[37619,37621],{"text":37620,"start":18298,"end":18312},"Das ist 'n sehr, sehr guter Punkt.",{"text":37622,"start":18312,"end":18372},"Was wir natürlich machen, ist, dass wir sagen, Familien haben eine ganze Reihe von Problemen und wir versuchen Lösungen für die Probleme von Familien.",31,{"sentences":37625,"speaker":88,"num_words":37628,"start":18372,"end":18394},[37626],{"text":37627,"start":18372,"end":18394},"Ich kann euch, glaub ich, so unterschreiben.",7,{"sentences":37630,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37519,"start":18397,"end":18667},[37631,37633,37635,37637,37639],{"text":37632,"start":18397,"end":18431},"So, das ist das, was wir in 'ner gewissen Form versuchen und das ist unser Ziel.",{"text":37634,"start":18431,"end":18555},"Wir bauen Lösungen für Familien, für die Probleme der Familien und das ist natürlich eine ganze Bandbreite von Produkten und da hat man natürlich in 'ner gewissen Form Die Wir haben natürlich ganz klar die Super App Strategie, die in in der Form natürlich da ist und wie treffen wir da Entscheidungen?",{"text":37636,"start":18555,"end":18578},"Also wir schauen uns an, okay, was sind neue Bereiche?",{"text":37638,"start":18578,"end":18592},"Was kann für uns spannend sein?",{"text":37640,"start":18592,"end":18667},"Wir haben uns natürlich jetzt zum Beispiel den Bereich des der der Schulmensa zum Beispiel ausgesucht und haben halt eben festgestellt, da sind sehr klassische traditionelle Player in dem Bereich.",{"sentences":37642,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37653,"start":18670,"end":18934},[37643,37645,37647,37649,37651],{"text":37644,"start":18670,"end":18716},"Die Kunden, wenn man sich die App Store Bewertungen der jeweiligen Player an dem Markt anschaut, sind sehr, sehr schlecht.",{"text":37646,"start":18716,"end":18736},"Also die Eltern sind sehr unzufrieden mit dem Produkt.",{"text":37648,"start":18739,"end":18882},"Gleichzeitig wissen wir, dass wir eine Bankinginfrastruktur haben, die die Grundlagen für son System stellen kann, also mit dem Auszahlen der Caterer, mit dem Einzahlen der Eltern, mit dem Bezahlen der Essen und denken, okay, das ist 'n Bereich, der spannend ist mit unserer Kompetenz und unserem Wissen, was wir über die letzten Jahre erlangt haben.",{"text":37650,"start":18885,"end":18907},"Können wir da eine gute Lösung für Familien entsprechend schaffen?",{"text":37652,"start":18909,"end":18934},"Und dann sagen, dann geben wir das natürlich innerhalb des Teams.",106,{"sentences":37655,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37666,"start":18934,"end":19084},[37656,37658,37660,37662,37664],{"text":37657,"start":18934,"end":18951},"Das Financeteam rechnet das aus.",{"text":37659,"start":18955,"end":18978},"Productmanagement kommt dazu, was bei uns sehr, sehr technisch ist.",{"text":37661,"start":18980,"end":19005},"Nils und ich machen uns unsere Gedankenmarketing, alle Abteilungen kommen zusammen.",{"text":37663,"start":19005,"end":19022},"Dann überlegen wir uns, okay, macht das Sinn?",{"text":37665,"start":19022,"end":19084},"Und dann entwickeln wir halt eben eine Strategie und versuchen dann son Speed Boot losstarten zu lassen, da halt 'n ersten NVP zu entwickeln.",58,{"sentences":37668,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36899,"start":19084,"end":19233},[37669,37671,37673,37675,37677],{"text":37670,"start":19084,"end":19120},"Das bedeutet, wir verkaufen das Produkt erst mal, schauen, sind Schulen überhaupt an unserem Produkt interessiert?",{"text":37672,"start":19124,"end":19156},"Dann entwickeln wir das parallel entsprechend mit 'nem kleinen Speed Boot, was ausgelagert ist.",{"text":37674,"start":19156,"end":19178},"Das muss nicht an unseren normalen Dailys teilnehmen.",{"text":37676,"start":19178,"end":19200},"Das muss nicht in die normalen Produktprozesse rein.",{"text":37678,"start":19200,"end":19233},"Das ist son bisschen Start-up im Start-up und das baut dann entsprechend das Produkt.",{"sentences":37680,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37689,"start":19233,"end":19424},[37681,37683,37685,37687],{"text":37682,"start":19233,"end":19251},"Dann bringen wir das an einen gewissen Punkt.",{"text":37684,"start":19254,"end":19287},"Und zu jeder Zeit könnten wir auch sagen, okay, das macht vielleicht doch keinen Sinn mehr.",{"text":37686,"start":19287,"end":19307},"Wir stoppen das jetzt an der Stelle.",{"text":37688,"start":19307,"end":19424},"Aber wir sind für uns als Bling ist es immer wichtig, dass wir das bestehende Produkt verbessern, aber nicht in son Maintenance Mode verfallen, sondern immer wieder neue Sachen schaffen, uns neue Sachen überlegen und schauen, wo können wir irgendwie 'n Value Ad für Familien liefern.",77,{"sentences":37691,"speaker":88,"num_words":37702,"start":19427,"end":19662},[37692,37694,37696,37698,37700],{"text":37693,"start":19427,"end":19463},"Dieser Speedboard Ansatz, wie Du gerade beschrieben hast, ist ja ganz interessant.",{"text":37695,"start":19467,"end":19483},"Wie macht ihr das staffing mäßig?",{"text":37697,"start":19483,"end":19633},"Also wenn ihr jetzt son neues Feld quasi identifiziert habt und sagt, okay, da da wollen wir mal was was bauen, uns was angucken, 'n kleinen MVP zurechtschustern, Wildert ihr dann in den bestehenden Productteams und sagt, okay, wir brauchen mal hier 'n Designer, wir brauchen hier 'n Entwickler, wir brauchen hier jemanden, der uns eine Datenbank zusammenschrauben kann.",{"text":37699,"start":19637,"end":19652},"Stellt ihr da neue Leute für ein?",{"text":37701,"start":19652,"end":19662},"Wie wie passiert das?",88,{"sentences":37704,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36693,"start":19664,"end":19711},[37705,37707],{"text":37706,"start":19664,"end":19700},"Insgesamt bei Bling ist es so, dass in 'nem Productteam bei uns sind 16 Personen.",{"text":37708,"start":19704,"end":19711},"Wir haben es aktuell",{"sentences":37710,"speaker":88,"num_words":37628,"start":19714,"end":19733},[37711],{"text":37712,"start":19714,"end":19733},"Sorry, in in einem Productteam oder Nee,",{"sentences":37714,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37725,"start":19733,"end":20037},[37715,37717,37719,37721,37723],{"text":37716,"start":19733,"end":19742},"also im Produktteam.",{"text":37718,"start":19742,"end":19886},"Genau und jetzt kommt das Ding, unser Productteam sind 16 Personen und jetzt kommt, glaub ich, das Spannende, dass wir nicht diesen Split haben, vielleicht wie andere in Domain, wo es heißt, okay, die Personen sind nur für Produkt x y zuständig oder die Personen sind nur für das Onboarding zuständig oder für Subscription Billing oder Payment.",{"text":37720,"start":19890,"end":19947},"Bei uns ist es so, dass wir Projekte haben, die gemeinsam auf der Roadnapp geplant werden und wir stellen die Teams dynamisch für die Projekte zusammen.",{"text":37722,"start":19947,"end":20018},"Also das bedeutet, es kann sein, dass Du mit anderen Teammitgliedern mal 3 Monate an dem Projekt arbeitest und danach zum Beispiel nach eineinhalb Monaten auf 'n anderes Projekt wechselt.",{"text":37724,"start":20018,"end":20037},"Das bedeutet, wir haben sehr stark dieses Projektdenken.",124,{"sentences":37727,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37387,"start":20040,"end":20354},[37728,37730,37732,37734,37736],{"text":37729,"start":20040,"end":20070},"Bei uns ist es auch so, dass wir in wöchentlichen Cycles arbeiten.",{"text":37731,"start":20073,"end":20158},"Wir ich versuche, ist natürlich immer sone Frage der Stage und für uns macht dieses Set-up im Moment aktuell supersinn, weil wir relativ geringen Overhead haben und damit sehr, sehr viel Output schaffen.",{"text":37733,"start":20161,"end":20217},"Natürlich, wenn man jetzt 'n Unternehmen hat, wo man 200, 300, 400 Developer hat, dann hat man natürlich 'n ganz anderes.",{"text":37735,"start":20217,"end":20273},"Deswegen ist es auch die Rolle des CTOs, CTOs entwickelt sich ja auch abhängig von der Stage, in der man grundsätzlich ist.",{"text":37737,"start":20273,"end":20354},"Und bei uns ist es halt eben so, dass wir diese Projektteams haben, die wir zusammenstellen und bei uns haben wir jetzt eine Kombination aus internen Mitarbeitern, wie ich vorhin schon gesagt hab.",{"sentences":37739,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37746,"start":20354,"end":20516},[37740,37742,37744],{"text":37741,"start":20354,"end":20360},"Von E.",{"text":37743,"start":20360,"end":20429},"ON unterstützen uns netterweise Leute und die arbeiten zusammen an dem Projekt und sind auch ihr eigenes Produktmanagement, ihr eigenes Design, ihr eigenes Frontend, ihr eigenes Backend Entwicklung.",{"text":37745,"start":20433,"end":20516},"Dieses Team ist voll funktionsfähig in 'ner gewissen Form und hat halt jetzt den Vorteil, dass es aus den kompletten normalen Meetingstrukturen raus ist, halt eben komplett frei nur an diesem spezifischen Thema arbeiten zu können.",66,{"sentences":37748,"speaker":88,"num_words":37154,"start":20518,"end":20719},[37749,37751,37753],{"text":37750,"start":20518,"end":20534},"Wie timet ihr denn diese Projektarbeit?",{"text":37752,"start":20538,"end":20686},"Weil das, ich hab den Ansatz schon 'n paarmal gesehen und in der Praxis ist der immer auf die Schnauze gefallen, weil unterschiedliche Projekt Streams nicht gleichzeitig fertig werden und dann quasi die Besetzung für die nächsten Projekte teilweise schon frei sind, teilweise noch nicht, weil ihr Altersprojekt sich verzögert und dann Leute in son Leerlauf geraten.",{"text":37754,"start":20690,"end":20719},"Schafft ihr das oder habt ihr da auch schon mal Probleme mit gehabt?",{"sentences":37756,"speaker":67,"num_words":36684,"start":20723,"end":20808},[37757,37759],{"text":37758,"start":20723,"end":20805},"Vielleicht kannst Du vorher, bevor Du die Frage antwortest, noch ganz kurz, weil Du sagtest 16 in dem Produktteam, nur ganz kurz aufsplitten, wie viele da aus welchem Bereich ungefähr sind.",{"text":14158,"start":20807,"end":20808},{"sentences":37761,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36864,"start":20810,"end":20929},[37762,37763,37765],{"text":20814,"start":20810,"end":20811},{"text":37764,"start":20816,"end":20876},"Also bei uns ist es so, dass wir 2 Personen Product Management haben, einen Head of Product Tuben und Tobias, die Product Management zusammen machen.",{"text":37766,"start":20878,"end":20929},"Dann haben wir eine Person im Design, dann haben wir und der Rest ist sozusagen Frontend und Backend fifty fifty Split entsprechend.",{"sentences":37768,"speaker":67,"num_words":67,"start":20931,"end":20932},[37769],{"text":14158,"start":20931,"end":20932},{"sentences":37771,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37782,"start":20935,"end":21063},[37772,37774,37776,37778,37780],{"text":37773,"start":20935,"end":20955},"Genau und da ist dann jeweils ein Lead.",{"text":37775,"start":20955,"end":20985},"Also es gibt ein Backend Lead und es gibt ein Frontend Lead entsprechend.",{"text":37777,"start":20988,"end":21021},"Das ist son bisschen die Aufteilung und unser Productmanagement grundsätzlich ist sehr technisch gehalten.",{"text":37779,"start":21024,"end":21054},"Also es bedeutet, unser Productmanagement ist auch in der Code Base unterwegs.",{"text":37781,"start":21057,"end":21063},"Es entwickelt nichts.",50,{"sentences":37784,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37108,"start":21063,"end":21186},[37785,37787,37789],{"text":37786,"start":21063,"end":21131},"Also es gab es gibt keine Commits, aber die sind schon unterwegs und schauen sich bestimmte Sachen an, schauen oft durch die Commits durch und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37788,"start":21131,"end":21172},"Das ist uns einfach sehr wichtig, dass auch Datenstrukturen verstanden werden, die die Querys selbst schreiben können.",{"text":37790,"start":21174,"end":21186},"Das ist son bisschen das Konzept-up.",{"sentences":37792,"speaker":67,"num_words":36698,"start":21189,"end":21200},[37793,37794,37796],{"text":14158,"start":21189,"end":21190},{"text":37795,"start":21193,"end":21196},"Und dann?",{"text":20814,"start":21196,"end":21200},{"sentences":37798,"speaker":88,"num_words":37628,"start":21202,"end":21221},[37799],{"text":37800,"start":21202,"end":21221},"Frage nach dem Projekt zu Frage nach",{"sentences":37802,"speaker":67,"num_words":37805,"start":21221,"end":21250},[37803],{"text":37804,"start":21221,"end":21250},"dem, wann Projekte zu Ende sind und wie man sich wieder zusammenfindet.",12,{"sentences":37807,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37044,"start":21253,"end":21502},[37808,37810,37812,37814,37816],{"text":37809,"start":21253,"end":21309},"Ja, das ist natürlich immer eine Herausforderung, weil ich glaub, ihr ihr wisst das genauso wie ich, also es verzögert sich immer etwas.",{"text":37811,"start":21309,"end":21377},"Also es ist ja es ist selten möglich, egal wie gut man wie gut man plant oder wie gut man schätzt, auch wenn man jeden einbezieht.",{"text":37813,"start":21381,"end":21396},"Es gibt immer wieder Verzögerung und Überraschungen.",{"text":37815,"start":21399,"end":21426},"Wir lösen das so, dass wir immer eine quartalsweise Planung machen.",{"text":37817,"start":21426,"end":21502},"Also das bedeutet, wir machen keine Jahresplanung klassisch, sondern wir planen immer das nächste Quartal und Ende der Woche sitzt immer sitzen die beiden Leads und das Produktmanagement zusammen.",{"sentences":37819,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37830,"start":21502,"end":21911},[37820,37822,37824,37826,37828],{"text":37821,"start":21502,"end":21538},"Die haben immer freitags 'n Meeting und da besprechen die die aktuelle Woche nach.",{"text":37823,"start":21538,"end":21576},"Was hat gut geklappt, was hat weniger gut geklappt Und dann planen sie auch die nächste Woche.",{"text":37825,"start":21576,"end":21657},"Also es bedeutet dadurch, dass wir diese Weekly Cycles haben und auch sehr dynamisch in der Priorisierung sind, ist es so, dass die das gemeinsam zusammen planen und dann möglicherweise Umstellung vornehmen.",{"text":37827,"start":21660,"end":21695},"Und es ist immer so, dass wir son bisschen Projekte und on on holt haben.",{"text":37829,"start":21695,"end":21911},"Also es bedeutet, es gibt Projekte, die sind komplett konzeptioniert, designt, alles fertig und wenn es jetzt Verzögerungen gibt in 'nem gewissen Projekt, zum Beispiel das Backend braucht länger, dann kann sich das Frontend einfach 'n Projekt aus den auf on on the shelf son bisschen aus dem Hochregal schnappen und kann das dann zum Beispiel umsetzen und sagen, okay, wir passen jetzt mal die Cachingstrategie in der App an oder wir verbessern die App Startzeit oder wir wollten schon immer mal x y umstellen.",163,{"sentences":37832,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37842,"start":21915,"end":22029},[37833,37835,37837,37839,37840],{"text":37834,"start":21915,"end":21934},"Wir wollen gerne das Designsystem besser abbilden.",{"text":37836,"start":21934,"end":22003},"Also da gibt's ja ganz, ganz viele Ideen und Themen und dann nehmen wir uns die sozusagen aus dem Buchregal raus und deswegen gibt es diese Leerlaufphasen niemals.",{"text":37838,"start":22006,"end":22019},"Also ist noch nie vorgekommen sozusagen.",{"text":20814,"start":22022,"end":22023},{"text":37841,"start":22023,"end":22029},"Und das",44,{"sentences":37844,"speaker":67,"num_words":36739,"start":22032,"end":22120},[37845],{"text":37846,"start":22032,"end":22120},"Also die sind dann aber Also wenn wir jetzt den Frontend Timer nehmen mit dem Frontend Lead, die können dann zum Beispiel sich 2 solche Tasks irgendwie raussuchen für eine Woche oder arbeiten immer alle auf einem.",{"sentences":37848,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37859,"start":22124,"end":22354},[37849,37851,37853,37855,37857],{"text":37850,"start":22124,"end":22143},"Nee, es ist immer es ist immer komplett gesittet.",{"text":37852,"start":22143,"end":22175},"Also es sind immer 3, 4 Product Streams sozusagen, die gleichzeitig laufen.",{"text":37854,"start":22179,"end":22227},"Und das ist natürlich auch immer die größte Herausforderung, die immer passend zu entblockieren und zu schauen, dass die Ja.",{"text":37856,"start":22229,"end":22252},"Das Move durchlaufen und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":37858,"start":22252,"end":22354},"Aber wir haben immer 4 Streams ungefähr, die parallel sozusagen angeschoben werden und dann gibt es mal mal einem vielleicht mal 'n Hick-up und dann kann man sich off the shelf son son Projekt nehmen und das halt eben entsprechend reinschieben.",91,{"sentences":37861,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37866,"start":22358,"end":22523},[37862,37864],{"text":37863,"start":22358,"end":22436},"Genau und die eigenen Teams haben wir auch immer Ideen, wo sie sagen, okay, hier wollen wir gerne mal das refactern oder hier wollen wir x y mal machen und dann sitzt das perfekt.",{"text":37865,"start":22436,"end":22523},"Wenn man 1, 2 Tage vielleicht auf was anderes wartet, dann kann man diese Themen perfekt einfach reinschieben, die man vielleicht schon mal das letzte halbe Jahr machen wollte, die aber keine gigantische Priorität jetzt hatten.",70,{"sentences":37868,"speaker":88,"num_words":1436,"start":22526,"end":22530},[37869],{"text":37870,"start":22526,"end":22530},"Und als",{"sentences":37872,"speaker":67,"num_words":37805,"start":22530,"end":22557},[37873],{"text":37874,"start":22530,"end":22557},"Du grade Team sagtest, war das dann zum Beispiel das Frontend Team?",{"sentences":37876,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37886,"start":22561,"end":22692},[37877,37879,37881,37883,37885],{"text":37878,"start":22561,"end":22580},"Zum Beispiel das Frontend Team oder das Backend Team.",{"text":37880,"start":22580,"end":22610},"Genau, also es ist so, Frontend Team und Backend Team geht's gemeinsam an Projekten.",{"text":37882,"start":22613,"end":22646},"Die sitzen auch alle sozusagen hier auf der Wir sind ja sehr, sehr stark im Office.",{"text":37884,"start":22649,"end":22690},"Die sitzen hier auch genau durch die Klarscheine hierdurch einmal auf der anderen Seite direkt alles zusammen.",{"text":378,"start":22690,"end":22692},57,{"sentences":37888,"speaker":67,"num_words":36986,"start":22692,"end":22779},[37889],{"text":37890,"start":22692,"end":22779},"Und hab ich dich eben richtig verstanden, dass das Projekt mit der Mensa, was jetzt rauskommt, dass das dann komplett von 'nem externen Team gemacht wird oder unterstützen die jetzt das große dicken Teams?",{"sentences":37892,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37897,"start":22782,"end":22850},[37893,37895],{"text":37894,"start":22782,"end":22793},"Nee, es ist sozusagen gemischt.",{"text":37896,"start":22796,"end":22850},"Also der das ist sozusagen gemischtes Team und zum Beispiel in dem Mensa Projekt bin ich jetzt zum Beispiel auch wieder sehr stark involviert.",29,{"sentences":37899,"speaker":67,"num_words":67,"start":22853,"end":22854},[37900],{"text":14158,"start":22853,"end":22854},{"sentences":37902,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37913,"start":22857,"end":23090},[37903,37905,37907,37909,37911],{"text":37904,"start":22857,"end":22885},"Genau und auch Niels ist zum Beispiel sehr stark in dem Projekt involviert.",{"text":37906,"start":22887,"end":22906},"Also das machen wir wirklich projektbasiert in der Form.",{"text":37908,"start":22906,"end":22987},"Das bedeutet, wir haben eine Person von von Neon, die unterstützen, die wir schon sehr, sehr gut kennen, die 300 Meter Luftlinie von uns entfernt sozusagen sind, die dann einfach herkommen können.",{"text":37910,"start":22989,"end":23014},"Und Leute bei uns aus dem Team und dann arbeiten die zusammen.",{"text":37912,"start":23014,"end":23090},"Wenn es halt eben mal so gewisse Peaks gibt oder viele Leute fallen aus, weil sie vielleicht krank sind und so weiter und so fort, da kann man halt eben da entsprechend ergänzen.",99,{"sentences":37915,"speaker":88,"num_words":37437,"start":23093,"end":23378},[37916,37918,37920,37922,37924],{"text":37917,"start":23093,"end":23117},"Kommen wir von der Planung der Projekte hin zu der Implementierung.",{"text":37919,"start":23120,"end":23219},"Und ich stell mir vor, dass ihr für all diese ganzen Themenbereiche, die ihr abbildet, ja nicht nur mit einem Partner für Finanzen zusammenarbeiten müsst, sondern wenn ihr, weiß nicht, Mobilfunkverträge macht, da gibt's bestimmt auch 'n Anbieter hinten dran.",{"text":37921,"start":23219,"end":23250},"Wenn ihr jetzt Nachhilfe macht, dann gibt es da bestimmt auch 'n Dienst.",{"text":37923,"start":23250,"end":23288},"Ich gehe nicht davon aus, dass ihr jetzt irgendwie 10000 Nachhilfelehrer eingestellt habt.",{"text":37925,"start":23290,"end":23378},"Und wenn ihr an die Schulen gehen wollt, dann braucht ihr zumindest jemanden, der auch so was wie Accountmanagement im Prinzip betreibt für die für die Schulen oder die, also die Verwaltung von den Schulen zumindest.",{"sentences":37927,"speaker":88,"num_words":37897,"start":23381,"end":23470},[37928,37930],{"text":37929,"start":23381,"end":23401},"Was ist technisch gesehen euer größeres Problem?",{"text":37931,"start":23404,"end":23470},"Die technische Integration und Schnittstellenanbindung von diesen ganzen Partnern oder die Abbildung in UI und GX von diesen doch sehr unterschiedlichen Prozessen?",{"sentences":37933,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37689,"start":23473,"end":23672},[37934,37936,37938,37940,37942],{"text":37935,"start":23473,"end":23494},"Ich glaube, es ist beides gleich an anspruchsvoll.",{"text":37937,"start":23498,"end":23542},"Also wenn wir zum Beispiel schauen, das Mobilfunkprodukt zum Beispiel, da arbeiten wir mit der Telekom da weg zusammen.",{"text":37939,"start":23542,"end":23592},"Das bedeutet, wir sind da in die Telekom Systeme integriert, da entsprechend die Sachen zu ermöglichen für Depot Lösungen.",{"text":37941,"start":23592,"end":23620},"Zum Beispiel haben wir die BNP Pariber zum Beispiel.",{"text":37943,"start":23623,"end":23672},"Also da haben wir die unterschiedlichsten Partner und manche Schnittstellen sind sehr, sehr schön und andere sind schwieriger, sag ich mal so.",{"sentences":37945,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37956,"start":23674,"end":23898},[37946,37948,37950,37952,37954],{"text":37947,"start":23674,"end":23697},"Aber ich glaube, sowohl die UI Übersetzung als auch die Schnittstellenanbindung.",{"text":37949,"start":23701,"end":23750},"Es ist alles schon sehr, sehr gut machbar, aber ich würde jetzt nicht sagen, das eine ist schwieriger persönlicher als das andere.",{"text":37951,"start":23750,"end":23768},"Ich glaub, hat alles so bisschen seine Herausforderung.",{"text":37953,"start":23771,"end":23885},"Die Herausforderung ist natürlich auch immer, die Systeme richtig zu monitoren und so weiter und so fort und festzustellen, weil da gibt es möglicherweise keine klassischen Health End Punkte, die man einfach triggern kann, sondern man muss halt oder die Partner selbst haben teilweise kein eigenes Monitoring.",{"text":37955,"start":23889,"end":23898},"Das bedeutet auf Ihr",92,{"sentences":37958,"speaker":88,"num_words":36787,"start":23898,"end":23905},[37959],{"text":37960,"start":23898,"end":23905},"seid das Monitoring.",{"sentences":37962,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37969,"start":23908,"end":24085},[37963,37965,37967],{"text":37964,"start":23908,"end":24039},"Genau und deswegen haben wir halt 'n extrem großes Monitoring Set-up sozusagen und wir monitoren halt eben, also wir gehen immer davon aus, dass unser also gefühlt, also ist in der Realität noch nicht so, aber wir denken, so wie wir Themen angehen, dass unser Partner nichts monitort und deswegen monitoren wir sozusagen alles.",{"text":37966,"start":24039,"end":24070},"Natürlich monitort der Partner, aber wir monitoren bei uns auf unserer Seite komplett doppelt.",{"text":37968,"start":24073,"end":24085},"Das bedeutet, wenn es irgendwelche Themen",74,{"sentences":37971,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":24085,"end":24112},[37972],{"text":37973,"start":24085,"end":24112},"gibt, Ausfälle, Probleme, Sachen, die nicht so funktionieren, wie",{"sentences":37975,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37986,"start":24112,"end":24480},[37976,37978,37980,37982,37984],{"text":37977,"start":24112,"end":24214},"sie sollten, die nicht unpredicted, Arpichanges, die nicht abgesprochen waren, solche Themen, dann dann wird das bei uns natürlich gibt's direkt entsprechende Alerts und wir können auf die Partner zugehen und das direkt ansprechen und lösen.",{"text":37979,"start":24216,"end":24231},"Und haben auch für alles so Fallbackmodes.",{"text":37981,"start":24235,"end":24333},"Also wenn etwas nicht funktioniert, dann haben wir immer einen Fallback sozusagen und auch von den App UI Screens sozusagen gibt es dann immer bestimmte Screens, die halt eben dann, sollte sollten bestimmte Teilfunktionen mal nicht gehen, dann eben einbinden.",{"text":37983,"start":24333,"end":24417},"Weil man muss auch überlegen, auch in dem kompletten Payment Bereich, da gibt's ja Card Ishering, Card Aquiring, Du hast den Kartenversand, Du hast Payment Processor da sozusagen mit drin.",{"text":37985,"start":24417,"end":24480},"Also Du hast da eine ganze Reihe von von von von von Dienstleistern in 'ner gewissen Form, die bestimmte Teilbereiche eben abbilden im im Finanzsektor.",138,{"sentences":37988,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37484,"start":24483,"end":24644},[37989,37991,37993,37995],{"text":37990,"start":24483,"end":24505},"Du hast 'n Partner, SEPA Transaktionen zu starten.",{"text":37992,"start":24508,"end":24521},"Man hat Themen wie SEPA Instant.",{"text":37994,"start":24521,"end":24579},"All diese ganzen Themen müssen irgendwie abgebildet werden Und da muss man ja schauen, funktioniert jedes dieser Module auf so, wie es soll grade?",{"text":37996,"start":24579,"end":24644},"Und das dieses Monitoring ist, glaub ich, der Aufwand, das Anbinden und das in UI Screens übersetzen, glaub ich, hält sich in Tanzen.",{"sentences":37998,"speaker":88,"num_words":37400,"start":24648,"end":24937},[37999,38001,38003,38005,38007],{"text":38000,"start":24648,"end":24666},"Wie geht ihr bei der Partnerwahl vor?",{"text":38002,"start":24669,"end":24822},"Wenn ihr euch jetzt für einen Partner entschieden habt für, so bleiben wir mal bei der Telekom, für ein Mobilfunkangebot und ihr arbeitet dann an der Integration, Wie generisch baut ihr sone Integration im Sinne von, na ja, vielleicht wollen wir das in Zukunft auch über Telefonica abwickeln oder irgendjemand anderen, ja, und sind da im Prinzip schon drauf vorbereitet?",{"text":38004,"start":24825,"end":24870},"Oder seid ihr da eher auf der Seite von, das ist irgendwie und da wollen wir eher nicht rein investieren?",{"text":38006,"start":24870,"end":24917},"Wir haben jetzt hier 'n Partner, mit dem sind wir glücklich und auf den bauen wir jetzt auch erst mal.",{"text":38008,"start":24920,"end":24937},"Wie wie findet ihr da das richtige Verhältnis?",{"sentences":38010,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36979,"start":24940,"end":25293},[38011,38013,38015,38017,38019],{"text":38012,"start":24940,"end":25009},"Bei uns ist es oft so, dass wir, wie wir bestimmte Themen angehen, auch wenn wir zum Beispiel uns Refaktorings zum Beispiel anschauen, vielleicht komm ich über den Engel.",{"text":38014,"start":25012,"end":25142},"Es ist normalerweise so, wenn wir sagen, okay, wir haben Teilbereiche der Codebase, wir haben Erfahrungen gesammelt und sagen, okay, wir wollen das gerne auf den neuesten Development Standard anpassen, refactern, dann ist das immer in der Kombination damit, dass wir das Feature teilweise neu designen und auch komplett neu bauen.",{"text":38016,"start":25142,"end":25207},"Also das bedeutet, wir machen nie klassische Coderefektors, die auf den keinen Impact haben, sondern wir sagen zum Beispiel, okay, der Taschengeldplaner soll refactored werden.",{"text":38018,"start":25210,"end":25252},"Dann wird der neu designt, es wird das komplette Nutzerfeedback eingearbeitet und der wird komplett neu gebaut.",{"text":38020,"start":25254,"end":25293},"Und so gehen wir Refacturings im Allgemeinen an und jetzt sozusagen auf den Partnergeschichte reinzugehen.",{"sentences":38022,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37170,"start":25296,"end":25511},[38023,38025,38027,38029,38031],{"text":38024,"start":25296,"end":25316},"Wir versuchen es schon so allgemein wie möglich zu halten.",{"text":38026,"start":25316,"end":25367},"Es ist aber nicht immer möglich, weil jeder Partner dann schon bestimmte Spezifika und so weiter hat, auf die man einfach eingehen muss.",{"text":38028,"start":25367,"end":25400},"Und oft ist es ja auch so, dass man langjährige Verträge entsprechend abschließt.",{"text":38030,"start":25400,"end":25498},"Das bedeutet, es ist jetzt nicht so zum Beispiel bei Payment Gateways bei uns, also wenn man klassische Payment Gateways hat, damit Subscription Zahlungen zu machen, die können wir von heute auf morgen kann können wir jeden Anbieter anschließen, den wir wollen.",{"text":38032,"start":25498,"end":25511},"Das ist sehr, sehr generlich.",{"sentences":38034,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38043,"start":25511,"end":25878},[38035,38037,38039,38041],{"text":38036,"start":25511,"end":25629},"Das ist 'n Partner, da hat man andere Pricing Konditionen oder andere Themen und dann sagt man, okay, den stellt man ganz einfach Bei unseren Kernpartnern, die sind aber schon sehr stark integriert, da haben wir schon Sachen abstrahiert, aber es geht immer nur bis zu 'nem gewissen Punkt.",{"text":38038,"start":25631,"end":25687},"Da müsste man oder da würde man nicht schon, wenn man einen neuen Partner hätte, würde man schon Teilbereiche auf jeden Fall neu bauen.",{"text":38040,"start":25689,"end":25782},"Das ist aber unser Ziel, weil wir in der Zeit auch so viel gelernt haben, dass wir wahrscheinlich sagen, damals, als wir 'n bestimmtes bestimmte Funktion entwickelt haben, würden wir's anders machen oder andere andere Sachen einfach noch mitdenken.",{"text":38042,"start":25786,"end":25878},"Genau und deswegen versuchen wir, die Sachen einfach zu halten und leicht austauschbar zu machen, aber es gibt Teilbereiche, da sind Sachen viel, viel leichter austauschbar, weil wir wissen, dass wir's sehr oft machen und bei anderen halt eben weniger.",152,{"sentences":38045,"speaker":88,"num_words":37628,"start":25881,"end":25900},[38046],{"text":38047,"start":25881,"end":25900},"Habt ihr schon mal euer Paymentpartner gewechselt?",{"sentences":38049,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36739,"start":25903,"end":25999},[38050,38052,38053,38055,38057],{"text":38051,"start":25903,"end":25910},"Für Payment Gateway?",{"text":202,"start":25914,"end":25915},{"text":38054,"start":25915,"end":25937},"Ja, wir haben halt ganz viele neue Payment Gateways dazugenommen.",{"text":38056,"start":25941,"end":25976},"Also wir sind damals sozusagen, sind wir sozusagen mit Stripe gestartet, hatten damals nur Kartenzahlungen.",{"text":38058,"start":25980,"end":25999},"Dann haben wir sehr stark Paypal mit dazugenommen.",{"sentences":38060,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36840,"start":26002,"end":26023},[38061],{"text":38062,"start":26002,"end":26023},"Dann haben wir Lastschrift sozusagen dazu genommen und",{"sentences":38064,"speaker":88,"num_words":38067,"start":26026,"end":26083},[38065],{"text":38066,"start":26026,"end":26083},"Aber ihr habt jetzt nicht zum Beispiel, weiß nicht, Kreditkartenbelägen schon mal von Stripe zu Pay One oder so was migriert?",21,{"sentences":38069,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38075,"start":26086,"end":26194},[38070,38072,38073],{"text":38071,"start":26086,"end":26178},"Na, aktuell, also es ist es gibt 'n es gibt sozusagen 'n Projekt, was was da und und holt gerade aktuell ist, ist perspektivisch werden wird das, werden die Payment Gateways sozusagen zentralisiert in 'ner gewissen Form.",{"text":1438,"start":26178,"end":26180},{"text":38074,"start":26180,"end":26194},"Ja, wünsch mich mal an,",43,{"sentences":38077,"speaker":88,"num_words":36835,"start":26194,"end":26205},[38078],{"text":38079,"start":26194,"end":26205},"wenn Du das gemacht hast.",{"sentences":38081,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38092,"start":26208,"end":26480},[38082,38084,38086,38088,38090],{"text":38083,"start":26208,"end":26289},"Genau, bei uns ist natürlich immer so bisschen das Thema, wir haben sozusagen von der Billing Engine, wir haben sozusagen das Subscription billigen nicht über die Subscription Engine, das Stripe, zum Beispiel gelöst.",{"text":38085,"start":26289,"end":26341},"Also bedeutet, wir haben zum Beispiel Chargespiel genommen und mit Chargespiel sozusagen haben wir die Flexibilität, jedes Payment Gateway anzubinden.",{"text":38087,"start":26345,"end":26376},"Das bedeutet, die Billing Logik ist bei uns nicht an das Payment Gateway gebunden.",{"text":38089,"start":26380,"end":26412},"Und wir haben natürlich den großen Vorteil, dass wir ja interne Transfers machen können.",{"text":38091,"start":26412,"end":26480},"Also das bedeutet, wir haben unsere erste Zahlungsmethode ist immer der Guthabenstand des Nutzers, von dem wir das Geld ja ohne irgendwelche payment Fees transferieren können.",107,{"sentences":38094,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36979,"start":26480,"end":26828},[38095,38097,38099,38101],{"text":38096,"start":26480,"end":26554},"Das bedeutet, wir können das Geld direkt von aus dem aus dem blingen Guthaben des Nutzers einziehen und dann sekundär belasten wir dann eigentlich nur die unterschiedlichen payment Gateways.",{"text":38098,"start":26554,"end":26637},"Also wir gehen immer über den internen Transfer und senken der als Fallback Methode haben wir dann klassische Payment Gateways, die wir entsprechend angebunden haben, die wir jetzt zukünftig zentralisieren werden.",{"text":38100,"start":26637,"end":26711},"Da werden wir alle austauschen, aber der Vorteil ist, dass wir die Billing Engine gleich ist und wir haben letztes Jahr die komplette Billing Engine ausgetauscht und das war schon schmerzhaft.",{"text":38102,"start":26714,"end":26828},"Also das waren viele, viele Nachtschichten, wo wir die die kompletten Billing Daten zu migrieren und die ganzen, also das war wirklich die die die Hölle, aber ich bin froh, dass wir das letztes Jahr gemacht haben, halt eben für die Zukunft besser aufgestellt zu sein.",{"sentences":38104,"speaker":88,"num_words":36756,"start":26831,"end":26884},[38105],{"text":38106,"start":26831,"end":26884},"Als jemand, der auch schon mal vor der Aufgabe stand, Kreditkartenautorisierungen zu müssen, versteh ich deinen Schmerz.",{"sentences":38108,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36767,"start":26887,"end":26923},[38109,38111],{"text":38110,"start":26887,"end":26900},"Wann macht ihr das bei euch?",{"text":38112,"start":26900,"end":26923},"Ihr habt ja natürlich viel Inapurtources bei euch.",{"sentences":38114,"speaker":88,"num_words":38117,"start":26923,"end":26974},[38115],{"text":38116,"start":26923,"end":26974},"Also oder hier müsste, hier muss ich das nicht machen, hier müsst ihr das auch nie mehr anfassen so, ja.",20,{"sentences":38119,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36715,"start":26976,"end":27032},[38120,38122],{"text":38121,"start":26976,"end":27017},"Habt ihr das selbst implementiert bei euch oder habt ihr das über Revenue Cat zum Beispiel gelöst?",{"text":38123,"start":27020,"end":27032},"Also über Anbieter in vergleichbar?",{"sentences":38125,"speaker":67,"num_words":36726,"start":27036,"end":27096},[38126,38128,38129,38131],{"text":38127,"start":27036,"end":27058},"Nee, wir also wir brauchen in dem Sinne gar nichts.",{"text":27063,"start":27060,"end":27061},{"text":38130,"start":27065,"end":27087},"Wir lassen's über den App Store und den Store laufen.",{"text":38132,"start":27087,"end":27096},"Ist das denn Ja,",{"sentences":38134,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37805,"start":27096,"end":27128},[38135,38137,38139,38140],{"text":38136,"start":27096,"end":27101},"genau, genau.",{"text":38138,"start":27101,"end":27113},"Bei Innerfälge ist das sozusagen.",{"text":202,"start":27113,"end":27116},{"text":38141,"start":27116,"end":27128},"Ich wollte nur Aber",{"sentences":38143,"speaker":67,"num_words":345,"start":27128,"end":27204},[38144,38146,38148],{"text":38145,"start":27128,"end":27172},"da haben wir nicht noch mal, nee, wir haben da kein direkt, das ist ja, nicht so Okay.",{"text":38147,"start":27174,"end":27200},"Noch mal als Anbieter dazwischen, sondern einfach direkt mit der Anbindung.",{"text":378,"start":27203,"end":27204},{"sentences":38150,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38067,"start":27206,"end":27256},[38151],{"text":38152,"start":27206,"end":27256},"Ja, macht ihr auch, also bei eurem Volumen sozusagen macht das, ist das wahrscheinlich auch die einzig sinnvolle Lösung entsprechend, genau.",{"sentences":38154,"speaker":88,"num_words":36925,"start":27258,"end":27361},[38155,38156,38157,38159,38161],{"text":202,"start":27258,"end":27259},{"text":202,"start":27259,"end":27262},{"text":38158,"start":27264,"end":27289},"Ja und wahrscheinlich auch vor allen Dingen bei der Historie.",{"text":38160,"start":27292,"end":27342},"Also ich kann mir vorstellen, dass jemand Dates heute anfängt, wo's eben so Player wie Revenue Cat und so was gibt.",{"text":38162,"start":27344,"end":27361},"Ist das vielleicht eine reellere Option?",{"sentences":38164,"speaker":88,"num_words":36806,"start":27366,"end":27393},[38165],{"text":38166,"start":27366,"end":27393},"Wohingegen zu, wenn man jetzt hier 15 Jahre Historie mitnimmt.",{"sentences":38168,"speaker":67,"num_words":36756,"start":27397,"end":27444},[38169,38171],{"text":38170,"start":27397,"end":27438},"Ich muss ja gerade erst mal googeln Google und oder in App Subscription made easy.",{"text":38172,"start":27438,"end":27444},"Ah, okay.",{"sentences":38174,"speaker":88,"num_words":36840,"start":27444,"end":27467},[38175],{"text":38176,"start":27444,"end":27467},"Ja, die sind so Strip Strip sozusagen, ne.",{"sentences":38178,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37286,"start":27467,"end":27732},[38179,38181,38182,38184,38186],{"text":38180,"start":27467,"end":27558},"Ja, genau, die sind so bisschen, also viele, also die grade Personen, die neue Apps rausbringen mit In Appources setzen immer sehr stark auf auf Revenue Cat und deshalb auch eine sehr gute Flotte Integration sozusagen.",{"text":20814,"start":27560,"end":27561},{"text":38183,"start":27561,"end":27581},"Aber man gibt natürlich noch mal Extragebühren ne.",{"text":38185,"start":27581,"end":27728},"Also das ist natürlich, kann man natürlich bei 'nem gewissen Volumen verhandeln wie immer, aber das ist natürlich der einfachste Weg, weil ich weiß noch damals, als ich Inderpources implementiert habe, da gibt's halt immer den ein oder anderen Edge Case, den man da handeln muss beim Blaystore und beim App Store und das war dann schon immer auch schmerzhaft damals gewesen.",{"text":20814,"start":27731,"end":27732},{"sentences":38188,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36715,"start":27732,"end":27781},[38189],{"text":38190,"start":27732,"end":27781},"Aber deswegen hat mich jetzt einfach nur mal eine eine, ihr stellt mir ja so viele Fragen, hat mich jetzt einfach nur",{"sentences":38192,"speaker":88,"num_words":1436,"start":27784,"end":27789},[38193],{"text":38194,"start":27784,"end":27789},"Ja, das",{"sentences":38196,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37969,"start":27789,"end":27976},[38197,38199,38201,38203,38205],{"text":38198,"start":27789,"end":27796},"war passiert.",{"text":38200,"start":27796,"end":27832},"Also deswegen, ich find's ja immer eine Sache, die wollte ich unbedingt sagen.",{"text":38202,"start":27832,"end":27945},"Es ist halt immer, ihr macht ja seit Jahren die Podcasts, ihr macht eure News Folgen, ihr macht all die ganzen Themen und ich find's absolut genial, aber eigentlich hat euch noch nie so richtig jemand interviewt und mal geschaut, wie macht ihr das eigentlich bei Lotum?",{"text":38204,"start":27945,"end":27960},"Wie sehen eure Prozesse eigentlich aus?",{"text":38206,"start":27960,"end":27976},"Wie welches wie löst ihr das?",{"sentences":38208,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36797,"start":27976,"end":28107},[38209,38211],{"text":38210,"start":27976,"end":28085},"Natürlich kennt man eure Technologien, aber ihr fragt immer in die eine Richtung, aber eigentlich will man natürlich auch mal 'n bisschen mehr über Lotum erfahren und was sind was ist da vielleicht das Playbook, neue Apps zu entwickeln und die weltweit rauszubringen, ja?",{"text":38212,"start":28088,"end":28107},"Das wär natürlich auch irgendwann noch mal eine spannende Folge.",{"sentences":38214,"speaker":88,"num_words":38219,"start":28107,"end":28151},[38215,38217],{"text":38216,"start":28107,"end":28120},"Hausaufgabe für 20 26.",{"text":38218,"start":28123,"end":28151},"Müssen wir mal gucken, wie wir das denn Format gießen und",15,{"sentences":38221,"speaker":67,"num_words":37628,"start":28151,"end":28168},[38222],{"text":38223,"start":28151,"end":28168},"vielleicht bietet sich Leon als Moderator an.",{"sentences":38225,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36879,"start":28170,"end":28276},[38226,38228],{"text":38227,"start":28170,"end":28176},"Ja, sehr gerne.",{"text":38229,"start":28178,"end":28276},"Ich komm mit Bad Nachher und komm mich mal in Person vorbei und schau mir das mal an, weil ich find's superspannend, was ihr macht und der genau, würd mich natürlich auch mal interessieren, was da eure principals sind.",{"sentences":38231,"speaker":67,"num_words":38240,"start":28276,"end":28398},[38232,38234,38236,38238],{"text":38233,"start":28276,"end":28282},"Sehr gut.",{"text":38235,"start":28282,"end":28333},"Ich hab auch gerade noch, also Revenucat hat als Subteil ihrer Webseite in App subscription made easy.",{"text":38237,"start":28333,"end":28355},"Da macht dann auch noch mal 'n bisschen mehr Sinn.",{"text":38239,"start":28355,"end":28398},"Also ich glaub, weil das Management ist dann tatsächlich Ja, also wenn Du Wir hatten ja",45,{"sentences":38242,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":28400,"end":28426},[38243],{"text":38244,"start":28400,"end":28426},"Die Dokuarkungs, Du hast es schon ganz schlank eigentlich.",{"sentences":38246,"speaker":67,"num_words":37886,"start":28426,"end":28571},[38247,38249,38251],{"text":38248,"start":28426,"end":28436},"Ja, ja, genau.",{"text":38250,"start":28436,"end":28522},"Aber wir haben ja selten bis gar nicht gemacht, was ja dann dann, glaube ich, einfach noch mal 'n Thema ist, weil Du das aufheben musst und verwalten musst und Migration tun und keine Ahnung was.",{"text":38252,"start":28524,"end":28571},"Und das ist dann bei nur Käufen in Anführungsstrichen natürlich noch mal einfacher, wenn Du Weg Wegwerfkäufe hast.",{"sentences":38254,"speaker":88,"num_words":37374,"start":28571,"end":28658},[38255],{"text":38256,"start":28571,"end":28658},"Und vor allen Dingen, ich wollt grad sagen, bei unseren Wegbackverkäufen oder Consumer Bekäufen halt auch wohl in 3 Monaten komplett egal ist, ob Du mal 'n paar Münzen gekauft hast oder nicht.",{"sentences":38258,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37075,"start":28661,"end":28833},[38259,38261,38263],{"text":38260,"start":28661,"end":28686},"Bei Subscriptions muss man die halt immer wiederherstellen können.",{"text":38262,"start":28686,"end":28742},"Man muss sozusagen natürlich den den State auch backendseitig in 'ner gewissen Form pflegen können, montainen können und so weiter und so fort.",{"text":38264,"start":28744,"end":28833},"Da sind natürlich Sole Lösungen hilfreich, aber auf 'nem gewissen Volumen und Umsatz macht es wahrscheinlich auch Sinn, da eine eigene Lösung zu haben, da einfach keinen kein keine keine Vieh abgeben zu müssen sozusagen.",{"sentences":38266,"speaker":67,"num_words":36886,"start":28835,"end":28933},[38267,38269],{"text":38268,"start":28835,"end":28863},"Als ihr angefangen habt mit Bling, wie sah damals eure Vision aus?",{"text":38270,"start":28863,"end":28933},"Also war das dieses Organisieren des Taschengeldes oder war wirklich auch schon diese Vision, wir wollen all diese verschiedenen Themen, die es dort gibt, an anpacken?",{"sentences":38272,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37424,"start":28937,"end":29170},[38273,38275,38277,38279,38281],{"text":38274,"start":28937,"end":29037},"Nee, wir sind komplett über den Taschengeldansatz damals gekommen und das war auch die Vision und das war auch, sage ich mal, die höchste Priorität und dann hat sich das über die Jahre einfach so weiterentwickelt, dass wir uns da verbreitert haben.",{"text":38276,"start":29039,"end":29073},"Aber zum Start war es ganz klar, lasst uns dieses Taschengeldprodukt für Familien bauen.",{"text":38278,"start":29075,"end":29108},"Lass uns das ermöglichen, dass Kinder und Jugendliche zahlen können unter der Kontrolle der Eltern.",{"text":38280,"start":29108,"end":29156},"Lass Eltern den Werkzeugkasten an die Hand geben, dass sie steuern können, wie frei Kinder bezahlen können sollen.",{"text":38282,"start":29156,"end":29170},"Will ich die Transaktionen sehen?",{"sentences":38284,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36986,"start":29170,"end":29251},[38285,38287,38289],{"text":38286,"start":29170,"end":29182},"Will ich sie nicht sehen?",{"text":38288,"start":29184,"end":29205},"Am Ende liefern wir den Werkzeugkasten, das überhaupt zu ermöglichen.",{"text":38290,"start":29208,"end":29251},"Genau und das war natürlich damals die Vision gewesen und das diese Verbreiterung kam dann einfach über die Zeit.",{"sentences":38292,"speaker":67,"num_words":38297,"start":29254,"end":29337},[38293,38295],{"text":38294,"start":29254,"end":29293},"Und jetzt noch mal, da haben wir, glaub ich, noch nicht hier übergesprochen, eine Frage als Vater.",{"text":38296,"start":29296,"end":29337},"Wenn man Bling nutzen will, macht es vor allen Dingen Sinn, wenn das Kind schon ein Smartphone hat?",35,{"sentences":38299,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38310,"start":29340,"end":29642},[38300,38302,38304,38306,38308],{"text":38301,"start":29340,"end":29385},"Genau, also es ist ist so, dass man da den größten Funktionsumfang hat, während das Kind schon ein Smartphone hat.",{"text":38303,"start":29385,"end":29449},"Es ist aber auch möglich, dass ein Wir unterstützen auch 'n Tablet Log in, das ist so der Junior Mode sozusagen, nennen wir den.",{"text":38305,"start":29449,"end":29511},"Das bedeutet, dass man mehrere Profile auf 'nem Tablet hat, son bisschen wie man das bei Netflix kennt und zwischen den Kindern dann wechseln kann.",{"text":38307,"start":29513,"end":29562},"Das ist auch möglich, weil einscannen vom QR Code kann man sich da entsprechend auch auf 'nem Tablet zum Beispiel einloggen.",{"text":38309,"start":29566,"end":29642},"Weil oft haben Familienhalt eben einen Tablet und sonst würde es sich theoretisch auf komplett aus der Elternansicht alle steuern lassen, dass man die Kinder das Kinderlog in da nicht aktivieren müsste.",122,{"sentences":38312,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36925,"start":29642,"end":29735},[38313,38315],{"text":38314,"start":29642,"end":29700},"Also entweder man hat das Kinderlog in, weil es Kinder 'n Smartphone hat, man benutzt den Junior Mode, weil man ein Family Tablet hat.",{"text":38316,"start":29702,"end":29735},"Das sind son bisschen die das sind son bisschen die Möglichkeiten, die man da hat.",{"sentences":38318,"speaker":67,"num_words":67,"start":29737,"end":29738},[38319],{"text":378,"start":29737,"end":29738},{"sentences":38321,"speaker":88,"num_words":37746,"start":29741,"end":29895},[38322,38324,38326,38328],{"text":38323,"start":29741,"end":29769},"Dann würde ich gerne noch auf einen ganz anderen Punkt zu sprechen kommen.",{"text":38325,"start":29769,"end":29848},"Und zwar hast Du ja am Anfang deiner Geschichte erzählt, wie ihr Neon aufgebaut habt und das Ganze sehr spartanisch angefangen hat, positiv formuliert oder sehr lean, wie man heute sagen würde, ja.",{"text":38327,"start":29850,"end":29872},"Und bei Bling seid ihr ja einen sehr anderen Weg gegangen.",{"text":38329,"start":29874,"end":29895},"So wie ich das verstehe, ist Bling ja fremdfinanziert.",{"sentences":38331,"speaker":1436,"num_words":67,"start":29898,"end":29899},[38332],{"text":29901,"start":29898,"end":29899},{"sentences":38334,"speaker":88,"num_words":38339,"start":29899,"end":30042},[38335,38337],{"text":38336,"start":29899,"end":29940},"Und da würde mich mal interessieren, wie wie wie viel Kulturschock das für dich war im Prinzip.",{"text":38338,"start":29944,"end":30042},"Kommt von so, wir wir haben Neon gebotsrappt und selber aufgebaut und organisch mit entsprechend Zeit groß gemacht hin zu Blingen, wo vielleicht die Mittel und Wege dann anders waren, aber auch die Herausforderungen und die Rechenschaft vielleicht auch?",56,{"sentences":38341,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38352,"start":30045,"end":30403},[38342,38344,38346,38348,38350],{"text":38343,"start":30045,"end":30053},"Ist eine gute Frage.",{"text":38345,"start":30053,"end":30173},"Wir, der der Blink case war am Anfang so gestaltet gewesen, dass wir gesagt haben, wir machen das Bootstrap, weil Nils sozusagen als Schweizer in der Schweiz damals angefangen hat, Hörspiele in die Schweiz zu importieren, die in Schweizer Deutschland aufzulegen, weil das sone Marktlücke war.",{"text":38347,"start":30173,"end":30363},"Und dann hat er sozusagen sehr stark in dem Segment sozusagen gearbeitet und hat dann da eigene Buchreihen rausgebracht und so weiter und so fort, eigene Hörbücher, deutsche Hörbücher in der Schweiz verlegt und kam dann auch sehr stark aus diesem Engel, hat dann die größte Schülerzeitung der Schweiz sozusagen gegründet, TIEs und hat das dann sozusagen teilweise die Unternehmen verkauft und die Schülerzeitung, das kann ich grad gar nicht beantworten, das weiß ich grad gar nicht.",{"text":38349,"start":30365,"end":30393},"Das kann ich grad gar nicht beantworten, das weiß ich grad gar nicht.",{"text":38351,"start":30396,"end":30403},"Auch verkauft oder",143,{"sentences":38354,"speaker":88,"num_words":36806,"start":30405,"end":30433},[38355,38357],{"text":38356,"start":30405,"end":30423},"Ihr kommt auch bald Sublingen zurück.",{"text":38358,"start":30423,"end":30433},"Ich seh das schon.",{"sentences":38360,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38371,"start":30437,"end":30614},[38361,38363,38365,38367,38369],{"text":38362,"start":30437,"end":30444},"Übergebene sozusagen.",{"text":38364,"start":30446,"end":30475},"Und deswegen haben wir natürlich sehr stark dieses Bootstopp Mindset Mindset gehabt.",{"text":38366,"start":30475,"end":30493},"Dann haben wir gesagt, okay, wir starten Bling.",{"text":38368,"start":30497,"end":30541},"Lass uns das Bootstrip machen, das war die Idee und so ist es auf ihn, ist es alles losgegangen.",{"text":38370,"start":30545,"end":30614},"Und dann gab's so die ersten Zeitungsartikel und dann sind sozusagen die ersten Venture Capital Unternehmen auf uns zugekommen, die aus Berlin, haben uns besucht, sind vorbeigekommen.",68,{"sentences":38373,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37725,"start":30618,"end":30928},[38374,38376,38378,38380,38382],{"text":38375,"start":30618,"end":30636},"Haben gesagt, finden Sie 'n spannenden Case?",{"text":38377,"start":30640,"end":30702},"Und dann haben wir natürlich auch son bisschen realisiert über die Zeit, okay, das wirklich groß zu machen, brauchen wir einfach 'n gewisses Startkapital, das zu ermöglichen.",{"text":38379,"start":30704,"end":30794},"Und haben dann sozusagen unsere ersten Partner, VC Partner mit reingenommen, die bei uns investiert sind und da haben wir sozusagen Im Sprech sind wir sozusagen Post Series A nennt man das in 'ner gewissen Form.",{"text":38381,"start":30796,"end":30886},"Es gibt sozusagen eine Seed Runde und es gibt eine eine Post Series A Runde sozusagen und haben da natürlich eine ganze Menge an Kapital eingesammelt, aber Geld benötigen wir halt, hier jetzt wachsen zu können.",{"text":38383,"start":30886,"end":30928},"Es ist aber jetzt nicht so, dass man Wir sind uns, glaub ich, im Herzen sehr treu geblieben.",{"sentences":38385,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38396,"start":30928,"end":31218},[38386,38388,38390,38392,38394],{"text":38387,"start":30928,"end":31052},"Es ist jetzt nicht so, dass die, dass sich da jetzt zu unserem Bootstrap Mindset, wir haben zwar mehr Kapital zur Verfügung und können brauchen das, das halt eben entsprechend groß zu machen, aber es ist jetzt nicht so, dass man sich jetzt hier irgendwie fühlt und es belagert mit Geld.",{"text":38389,"start":31055,"end":31066},"Das ist überhaupt nicht der Fall.",{"text":38391,"start":31066,"end":31184},"Also man hat sehr stark die Botschaft Mentality weiterhin und vielleicht würde sich der ein oder andere auch noch mal stärker wünschen von von von von Leuten, die wir bei uns im Umfeld haben, dass wir die 'n bisschen stärker ablegen, aber Nils und ich sind da sehr streng.",{"text":38393,"start":31184,"end":31209},"Jeder jeder Vertrag mit dem Partner muss nachverhandelt werden.",{"text":38395,"start":31209,"end":31218},"Da wird erst approved.",119,{"sentences":38398,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38297,"start":31218,"end":31303},[38399,38401,38403],{"text":38400,"start":31218,"end":31240},"Auch die Leute bei Fiber müssen nachverhandelt werden.",{"text":38402,"start":31242,"end":31255},"Es muss alles sozusagen nachverhandelt werden.",{"text":38404,"start":31255,"end":31303},"Wir versuchen da so sparsam wie möglich an unser Ziel zu kommen und das mit dem Kapitaleinsatz, den wir entsprechend haben.",{"sentences":38406,"speaker":88,"num_words":37374,"start":31305,"end":31392},[38407],{"text":38408,"start":31305,"end":31392},"Ist ja eine lange Runrate lobenswert, aber so wie ich das gelesen hab, habt ihr ja schon auch 'n bisschen was von dem Geld in die Hand genommen, so größere Einkäufe zu tätigen.",{"sentences":38410,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38421,"start":31395,"end":31688},[38411,38413,38415,38417,38419],{"text":38412,"start":31395,"end":31439},"Hast Du 'n hast Du 'n Beispiel, worauf Du Ah, okay, jetzt ich versteh, worauf Du hinaus ist.",{"text":38414,"start":31439,"end":31448},"Hat's kurz gedauert.",{"text":38416,"start":31451,"end":31524},"Genau, was wir natürlich gemacht haben, ist, dass wir Fin Step 'n Unternehmen gekauft haben vor wenigen Monaten, da jetzt aktiv sind, die bei uns natürlich in die App zu integrieren.",{"text":38418,"start":31527,"end":31663},"Und genau, da natürlich noch mal grade in dem Rahmen finanzielle Bildung, weil's uns einfach sehr wichtig ist, da 'n Unternehmen gefunden haben, was sehr gut passt und dass bei uns natürlich gesagt haben, okay, das wollen wir sehr stark bei uns eingliedern und das war natürlich 'n Thema, was wir vor einigen Monaten natürlich entsprechend angestoßen haben.",{"text":38420,"start":31663,"end":31688},"Ich hab mich grad schon geholt, worauf Du worauf Du",120,{"sentences":38423,"speaker":88,"num_words":38339,"start":31690,"end":31844},[38424,38426,38428,38429,38431],{"text":38425,"start":31690,"end":31740},"Es gab im Kopf von so die ganzen, meint er den Whirlpool auf der Dachterrasse, meint er, was?",{"text":38427,"start":31740,"end":31751},"Welche großen Einkäufer?",{"text":31756,"start":31751,"end":31755},{"text":38430,"start":31759,"end":31781},"Nein, also ja, ich, genau, ich meinte meinte Finstap.",{"text":38432,"start":31785,"end":31844},"Und was mich interessieren würde, ist, das ist ja, also aus, ihr seid noch relativ jung und trotzdem schon quasi eine andere Firma da übernommen.",{"sentences":38434,"speaker":88,"num_words":38297,"start":31848,"end":31934},[38435,38437,38439,38441],{"text":38436,"start":31848,"end":31858},"Wie lief das organisatorisch?",{"text":38438,"start":31862,"end":31873},"Habt ihr die bei euch integriert?",{"text":38440,"start":31873,"end":31914},"Lasst ihr das weiterhin alles getrennt und integriert das quasi nur kundenseitig in der in der App?",{"text":38442,"start":31914,"end":31934},"Wie wie führt ihr diese 2 Firmen zusammen?",{"sentences":38444,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37570,"start":31937,"end":32166},[38445,38447,38449,38451,38453],{"text":38446,"start":31937,"end":31979},"Genau, also bei uns ist es so, Nils hat das sehr stark gestartet, muss man an der Stelle sagen.",{"text":38448,"start":31979,"end":32030},"Also Nils, mein Kofferraum da, wie gesagt, ich bin für den kompletten Productbereich zuständig und für den kompletten Rest ist Nils sozusagen zuständig.",{"text":38450,"start":32033,"end":32049},"Das ist son bisschen die Aufteilung bei uns.",{"text":38452,"start":32051,"end":32115},"Das bedeutet, bei uns sieht das jetzt aktuell so aus, dass wir uns alles, was sozusagen Fin Step ausmacht sozusagen versuchen, in die Black App unterzubringen.",{"text":38454,"start":32118,"end":32166},"Wir werden das nicht als 2 getrennte Apps haben, die sind ja auch mit unterschiedlichen Technologien gebaut und auch unterschiedliche Datenstrukturen.",{"sentences":38456,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38461,"start":32170,"end":32280},[38457,38459],{"text":38458,"start":32170,"end":32239},"Das bedeutet, wir werden das komplett überführen und werden das bei uns alle Inhalte und alles, was Fin Step ausmacht, werden wir die Kinderansicht bei uns entsprechend unterbringen.",{"text":38460,"start":32242,"end":32280},"Und das wird dann Anfang Anfang des nächsten Jahres so weit sein, dass das entsprechend auch live geht.",46,{"sentences":38463,"speaker":67,"num_words":67,"start":32282,"end":32283},[38464],{"text":378,"start":32282,"end":32283},{"sentences":38466,"speaker":88,"num_words":36840,"start":32285,"end":32305},[38467,38469],{"text":38468,"start":32285,"end":32298},"Dennis, hast Du noch eine Frage?",{"text":38470,"start":32301,"end":32305},"Es ist",{"sentences":38472,"speaker":67,"num_words":38481,"start":32305,"end":32558},[38473,38475,38477,38479],{"text":38474,"start":32305,"end":32376},"jetzt 'n bisschen spät, weil das Ganze am Anfang war, aber vielleicht trotzdem, weil's mich noch mal interessiert und bist ja bist dann schnell weitergegangen war, diese Youtube Anfänge.",{"text":38476,"start":32379,"end":32458},"Aber heut wollte ich noch mal ganz kurz rein, weil Du sagtest, ja, da warst Du selbst irgendwie 13, 14, weil erst da dachte ich, okay, damals schon mit der Zielgruppe zu tun.",{"text":38478,"start":32458,"end":32518},"Dann dachte ich, Du hast irgendwie Lernvideos für Kinder und Jugendliche gemacht, aber Du warst ja selbst noch Kind und Jugendliche dann in der Zeit.",{"text":38480,"start":32520,"end":32558},"Wo kam denn damals dann dein Wissen her, was Du dir, was Du dann verbreitet hast?",103,{"sentences":38483,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37479,"start":32561,"end":32952},[38484,38486,38488,38490,38492],{"text":38485,"start":32561,"end":32575},"Na ja, das ist 'n guter Punkt.",{"text":38487,"start":32575,"end":32700},"Ich glaube, was ich damals gemacht habe, ist natürlich, dass ich mir sehr, sehr viele andere Youtube Videos angeschaut habe international und das Wissen sozusagen aggregiert habe und geschaut hab, okay, was fehlt irgendwie in dem deutschen Markt oder wo waren halt eben Leute einfach grade Probleme und das Wissen halt eben aggregiert habe.",{"text":38489,"start":32702,"end":32752},"Vielleicht das, was heute eine AI machen würde und das sozusagen in noch mal 'nem anderen Format halt eben erklärt habe.",{"text":38491,"start":32752,"end":32857},"Und ich glaube, dass ich mir da eine sehr gute Erkläreigenschaft über die Jahre angeeignet hab, dass ich halt eben Wissen konsumiert habe, sehr tief in in unterschiedliche Themen reingegangen bin und versucht hab, die noch mal aggregiert, einfach in 'ner gewissen Form darzustellen.",{"text":38493,"start":32860,"end":32952},"Und da ging es halt so Videos wie, okay, wie setze ich zum Beispiel 'n Linux Server auf, aber auch wie setze ich bestimmte Gaming Server auf, wie hoste ich die wo und so weiter und so fort.",{"sentences":38495,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37363,"start":32952,"end":33294},[38496,38498,38500,38502,38504],{"text":38497,"start":32952,"end":32972},"Wie kann ich die in 'ner gewissen Form skalieren?",{"text":38499,"start":32972,"end":33017},"Wie kann ich aber auch Plug Ins für bestimmte Server entwickeln, also für bestimmte Spiele zum Beispiel?",{"text":38501,"start":33020,"end":33103},"Es ist sehr in diese technische Entwicklungsrichtung gegangen und das war so in 'ner gewissen Form der Fokus gewesen für den deutschen Markt und damals war es oft noch nicht alles noch nicht so international gewesen.",{"text":38503,"start":33106,"end":33159},"Und die Plattform war natürlich auch einfach noch sehr, sehr klein, dass man auf zu allen nicht Hunderte oder tausende Videos gefunden hat.",{"text":38505,"start":33159,"end":33294},"Also heute haben wir ja da eine Contentflut, aber damals gab's halt nur ein Video und wenn man das, wenn man 'n Tutorial gemacht hat nach einem Video und es hat bei einem Lokal nicht geklappt, dann war man als Endkonsument super unzufrieden, weil man so dachte, ich hab das doch 1 zu 1 genauso gemacht.",{"sentences":38507,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37746,"start":33294,"end":33445},[38508,38510,38512,38514],{"text":38509,"start":33294,"end":33308},"Warum klappt das bei mir nicht?",{"text":38511,"start":33308,"end":33392},"Ich Und man hat halt nicht diese Auswahl, die man heute hat, wo man sich 10 Videos anschaut und sagt, ah okay, ich hatte eine ganz andere Version zum Beispiel, deswegen hat das nicht geklappt zum Beispiel.",{"text":38513,"start":33394,"end":33428},"Oder die Person hat einfach das Video umbenannt und das ist eigentlich was ganz anderes gewesen.",{"text":38515,"start":33430,"end":33445},"Genau, das war son bisschen der Hintergrund.",{"sentences":38517,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":33448,"end":33467},[38518],{"text":38519,"start":33448,"end":33467},"Die spannende Frage ist eigentlich, gibt's die Videos noch?",{"sentences":38521,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36925,"start":33470,"end":33567},[38522,38524,38526,38528,38530],{"text":38523,"start":33470,"end":33481},"Die Videos gibt's nicht mehr.",{"text":38525,"start":33481,"end":33499},"Ich hab die mittlerweile alle privat genommen.",{"text":38527,"start":33499,"end":33520},"Vielleicht tue ich die immer noch mal rausnehmen.",{"text":38529,"start":33523,"end":33538},"Es ist aber immer eine schöne Erinnerung.",{"text":38531,"start":33538,"end":33567},"Ich schau mir die schon alle paar Jahre entsprechend an und genau.",{"sentences":38533,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38544,"start":33569,"end":33824},[38534,38536,38538,38540,38542],{"text":38535,"start":33569,"end":33582},"Deswegen, ich bin auch mal gespannt.",{"text":38537,"start":33582,"end":33629},"Ich hab auf unsere Reise, die ich sozusagen dann ja, gestartet habe, habe ich auch immer in Videos dokumentiert.",{"text":38539,"start":33632,"end":33673},"Das bedeutet ich, das finde ich schön, vielleicht auch auf an an alle Zuhörer und Zuhörerinnen mal.",{"text":38541,"start":33675,"end":33735},"Ich, alle paar Monate setze ich mich mit meinen Ängsten zusammen, also mit meinen Co Foundern von den jeweiligen Unternehmen setz ich mich entsprechend zusammen.",{"text":38543,"start":33735,"end":33824},"Und wir drehen immer 'n Status Update und reden komplett ehrlich, wie wir uns grade fühlen, was grade gut läuft, die erste Einstellung des Mitarbeiters, was für Sorgen wir vielleicht auch haben, was klappt.",101,{"sentences":38546,"speaker":88,"num_words":1436,"start":33827,"end":33831},[38547],{"text":38548,"start":33827,"end":33831},"Und wir",{"sentences":38550,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38561,"start":33831,"end":34032},[38551,38553,38555,38557,38559],{"text":38552,"start":33831,"end":33846},"schauen uns diese Videos nie wieder an.",{"text":38554,"start":33846,"end":33869},"Also das bedeutet, wir haben diese Videos noch nie angeschaut.",{"text":38556,"start":33869,"end":33897},"Wir haben das jetzt seit 10 Jahren oder so machen wir das.",{"text":38558,"start":33897,"end":33959},"Und wir haben uns kein Video seitdem wieder angeschaut und irgendwann wollen wir das gerne mal zusammenschneiden und in 'nem besonderen Moment uns das alles anschauen.",{"text":38560,"start":33959,"end":34032},"Und dann sieht man auch in 'ner gewissen Form noch mal die Up and Downs, die man halt auf dieser komplette Strecke hat und die auch in der Zukunft noch kommen.",86,{"sentences":38563,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36782,"start":34032,"end":34096},[38564,38566],{"text":38565,"start":34032,"end":34084},"Also es sind ja, es wird noch viele Themen geben, noch viele Themen, die gut laufen, Sachen, die vielleicht doch einfach schlecht laufen.",{"text":38567,"start":34086,"end":34096},"Das wird die Zukunft zeigen.",{"sentences":38569,"speaker":67,"num_words":38574,"start":34099,"end":34163},[38570,38572],{"text":38571,"start":34099,"end":34140},"Hast Du noch so eine irgendwie größte Herausforderung aus technologischer Sicht, die ihr im Moment habt?",{"text":38573,"start":34140,"end":34163},"Oder bist Du relativ entspannt und ihr entwickelt einfach Features?",26,{"sentences":38576,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37866,"start":34166,"end":34330},[38577,38579,38581,38583,38585],{"text":38578,"start":34166,"end":34238},"Ich glaube, es ist son bisschen die größte Herausforderung, ich glaub, weniger in technischer Sicht, sondern wie bekomm ich alt, wie bekomm ich AI am besten in meine Produktprozesse überall inkludiert?",{"text":38580,"start":34238,"end":34248},"Wo macht das Sinn?",{"text":38582,"start":34248,"end":34258},"Wo macht das keinen Sinn?",{"text":38584,"start":34260,"end":34275},"Das ist, glaub ich, immer eine Herausforderung.",{"text":38586,"start":34275,"end":34330},"Wie bekomme ich auch Leute überzeugt, die vielleicht weniger Lust auf die Usage von AI zum Beispiel haben, damit sich selbst zu hebeln?",{"sentences":38588,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37031,"start":34334,"end":34557},[38589,38591,38593,38595,38597],{"text":38590,"start":34334,"end":34367},"Wie bekomme ich Leute, die es zu viel einfach nutzen dazu, es weniger zu nutzen?",{"text":38592,"start":34370,"end":34498},"Ich glaub, das ist son bisschen die Herausforderung und deswegen fände ich's auch irgendwann noch mal spannend bei euch, noch mal 'n Podcast hören, nicht mit mir, aber vielleicht mit jemand anders, noch mal ganz tief dadrüber, über I zu sprechen in dem Zusammenhang, wie bekomme ich PS auf die Straße?",{"text":38594,"start":34498,"end":34518},"Wie kann ich das aktiv in Produktprozesse inkludieren?",{"text":38596,"start":34522,"end":34547},"Wie mache ich das, wie bring ich das meinen Teammitgliedern bei?",{"text":38598,"start":34550,"end":34557},"Wo macht was Sinn?",{"sentences":38600,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37782,"start":34557,"end":34693},[38601,38603,38605,38607,38609],{"text":38602,"start":34557,"end":34589},"Cursor, Co Pilot, alles Mögliche, was es ergibt, die unterschiedlichen Modelle?",{"text":38604,"start":34592,"end":34610},"Wie kann ich das im Produktmanagement, in Design?",{"text":38606,"start":34610,"end":34634},"Welche MPMCP Servermassen Sinn und so?",{"text":38608,"start":34634,"end":34657},"Das wär, glaub ich, noch mal 'n spannendes Thema.",{"text":38610,"start":34657,"end":34693},"Das will sich mir, die Folge würde ich mir gerne bei euch irgendwann noch mal anhören.",{"sentences":38612,"speaker":67,"num_words":38067,"start":34696,"end":34752},[38613,38615],{"text":38614,"start":34696,"end":34737},"Mag das, wenn auch mal 'n bisschen Ideen und Forderungen der Fotografie gegenüber gestellt werden.",{"text":38616,"start":34737,"end":34752},"Das find ich sehr gut, Jan.",{"sentences":38618,"speaker":88,"num_words":36732,"start":34755,"end":34779},[38619],{"text":38620,"start":34755,"end":34779},"Ja, also kommt direkt hab ich schon aufgeschrieben grade.",{"sentences":38622,"speaker":67,"num_words":36787,"start":34779,"end":34789},[38623],{"text":38624,"start":34779,"end":34789},"Ja, sehr gut.",{"sentences":38626,"speaker":88,"num_words":37805,"start":34789,"end":34825},[38627,38629,38630,38631],{"text":38628,"start":34789,"end":34802},"Auf die auf die Liste.",{"text":34807,"start":34805,"end":34806},{"text":378,"start":34809,"end":34810},{"text":38632,"start":34813,"end":34825},"Dann keine letzte Frage mehr?",{"sentences":38634,"speaker":67,"num_words":36693,"start":34829,"end":34878},[38635,38636,38637],{"text":34833,"start":34829,"end":34830},{"text":34833,"start":34835,"end":34836},{"text":38638,"start":34836,"end":34878},"Also ich würde jetzt Lea noch eine stellen, die wir klassischerweise stellen, aber das machst Du vielleicht.",{"sentences":38640,"speaker":88,"num_words":37587,"start":34878,"end":34939},[38641,38643,38645],{"text":38642,"start":34878,"end":34898},"Kannst Du doch, kannst Du gerne machen.",{"text":38644,"start":34898,"end":34912},"Ich hab nur eine letzte Anmerkung.",{"text":38646,"start":34912,"end":34939},"Ich hab nämlich eben noch mal Wikipedia aufgemacht und die Euro",{"sentences":38648,"speaker":67,"num_words":36698,"start":34939,"end":34950},[38649,38650],{"text":13291,"start":34939,"end":34942},{"text":38651,"start":34942,"end":34950},"Nee, ich Job.",{"sentences":38653,"speaker":88,"num_words":36840,"start":34950,"end":34976},[38654,38656,38657],{"text":38655,"start":34950,"end":34967},"Nein, nein, nein, ich hab angefangen.",{"text":34973,"start":34967,"end":34971},{"text":34978,"start":34975,"end":34976},{"sentences":38659,"speaker":67,"num_words":37897,"start":34976,"end":35055},[38660,38662,38664,38666],{"text":38661,"start":34976,"end":35003},"Das hast Du nämlich nicht rausgeholt in der Zeit, ich aber.",{"text":38663,"start":35007,"end":35021},"2 Jahre lang hieß sie Kitty.",{"text":38665,"start":35024,"end":35038},"Ich bin dir einen Sprung voraus.",{"text":38667,"start":35038,"end":35055},"Ich hab nämlich noch Gemini genutzt.",{"sentences":38669,"speaker":88,"num_words":37805,"start":35058,"end":35087},[38670],{"text":38671,"start":35058,"end":35087},"Ich hab nicht Gemini genutzt, sondern deshalb hab ich die richtigen Fakten.",{"sentences":38673,"speaker":67,"num_words":36840,"start":35087,"end":35115},[38674],{"text":38675,"start":35087,"end":35115},"Juli 2000 Okay, erzähl, was im Juli passierte.",{"sentences":38677,"speaker":88,"num_words":36826,"start":35115,"end":35188},[38678,38680,38681],{"text":38679,"start":35115,"end":35148},"Nein, ich wollte nur sagen, dass die Euromaus wirklich Euromaus heißt, Ja.",{"text":594,"start":35151,"end":35152},{"text":38682,"start":35152,"end":35188},"Aber sie heißt at mit Vorname und das war mir aus meiner Jugend nicht",{"sentences":38684,"speaker":67,"num_words":38574,"start":35190,"end":35259},[38685,38687,38688,38690,38692],{"text":38686,"start":35190,"end":35215},"Ja, aber noch mal mehr, weil Du ja auch alt bist schon.",{"text":35221,"start":35218,"end":35219},{"text":38689,"start":35224,"end":35237},"Neunzehnhundertsiebenundsiebzig bis 2015 hieß sie.",{"text":38691,"start":35241,"end":35257},"Nur Euromaus, da gab's jetzt noch nicht.",{"text":202,"start":35257,"end":35259},{"sentences":38694,"speaker":67,"num_words":38461,"start":35259,"end":35379},[38695,38697,38698],{"text":38696,"start":35259,"end":35312},"Und den Vornamen Ed und damals auch dann noch mit Edda zusammen kam erst Juli 2015 zum vierzigjährigen Park Jubiläum.",{"text":20814,"start":35316,"end":35317},{"text":38699,"start":35317,"end":35379},"Und nämlich 2 Jahre, das ist dann für die Hardcore Fans, von 75 bis neunzehnhundertsiebenundsiebzig hieß sie Kitty und wurde dann in den Euromaos umbenannt.",{"sentences":38701,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36840,"start":35379,"end":35399},[38702],{"text":38703,"start":35379,"end":35399},"Das ist ja auch 'n bisschen nach 1",{"sentences":38705,"speaker":67,"num_words":1436,"start":35402,"end":35407},[38706],{"text":38707,"start":35402,"end":35407},"eine Rolle,",{"sentences":38709,"speaker":88,"num_words":36787,"start":35411,"end":35418},[38710],{"text":38711,"start":35411,"end":35418},"Kitty zu nennen.",{"sentences":38713,"speaker":67,"num_words":36806,"start":35421,"end":35451},[38714],{"text":38715,"start":35421,"end":35451},"Nach 1 Umfrage durch eine Zeitung und tatsächlich auch, oh",{"sentences":38717,"speaker":88,"num_words":36787,"start":35454,"end":35462},[38718],{"text":38719,"start":35454,"end":35462},"Bin ich gespannt.",{"sentences":38721,"speaker":67,"num_words":38219,"start":35464,"end":35500},[38722,38724],{"text":38723,"start":35464,"end":35484},"Ach nee, das war, glaub ich, schon die Umfrage.",{"text":38725,"start":35484,"end":35500},"Irgendwo irgendwo gab's noch eine Umfrage",{"sentences":38727,"speaker":88,"num_words":36835,"start":35503,"end":35515},[38728],{"text":38729,"start":35503,"end":35515},"Ob's wieder zurückgenannt werden soll?",{"sentences":38731,"speaker":67,"num_words":36756,"start":35518,"end":35556},[38732,38734],{"text":38733,"start":35518,"end":35535},"Nee, aber ja, da kann doch eher dazu.",{"text":38735,"start":35535,"end":35556},"Aber jetzt sind wir auch da noch schlauer geworden.",{"sentences":38737,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37121,"start":35556,"end":35583},[38738],{"text":38739,"start":35556,"end":35583},"Ja, freut mich, dass wir das noch mal klären konnten jetzt,",{"sentences":38741,"speaker":88,"num_words":36806,"start":35587,"end":35620},[38742,38743,38745],{"text":35591,"start":35587,"end":35588},{"text":38744,"start":35588,"end":35603},"Die richtigen Fragen eben.",{"text":38746,"start":35607,"end":35620},"Kritischer Journalismus in der Programmierbar.",{"sentences":38748,"speaker":67,"num_words":345,"start":35624,"end":35704},[38749,38751,38753],{"text":38750,"start":35624,"end":35649},"Hoffentlich ist das nicht halluziniert mit diesem Kiddy Ding.",{"text":38752,"start":35649,"end":35668},"Vielleicht hätte ich das noch mal verifizieren sollen.",{"text":38754,"start":35670,"end":35704},"Ah okay, also das Kiddy Ding ist von der AI, da übernehmen wir",{"sentences":38756,"speaker":88,"num_words":36756,"start":35704,"end":35748},[38757,38759],{"text":38758,"start":35704,"end":35715},"aber keine Haftung drauf.",{"text":38760,"start":35715,"end":35748},"Eure Maus halt stimmt, aber jetzt kannst Du mit deiner letzten Frage abschließen.",{"sentences":38762,"speaker":67,"num_words":37782,"start":35751,"end":35876},[38763,38764],{"text":20814,"start":35751,"end":35752},{"text":38765,"start":35756,"end":35876},"Das ist ja auch so schon 'n Klassiker in der CTO Folge, nämlich wenn Du der der junge Leon, ich glaub, so alt bist Du auch immer noch nicht, aber trotzdem zurückreisen könntest und deinem sehr jungen Ich etwas zuflüstern könntest, was dir irgendwie in der Zeit deutlich weitergeholfen",{"sentences":38767,"speaker":1436,"num_words":1436,"start":35878,"end":35882},[38768],{"text":38769,"start":35878,"end":35882},"hätte oder",{"sentences":38771,"speaker":67,"num_words":36782,"start":35882,"end":35951},[38772,38774],{"text":38773,"start":35882,"end":35894},"was Du anders machen würdest.",{"text":38775,"start":35894,"end":35951},"Gibt's da irgendwas, was dir spontan in den Kopf kommt, wo Du sagst, so, das wär was, das hätte ich gern früher gewusst?",{"sentences":38777,"speaker":1436,"num_words":38786,"start":35954,"end":36134},[38778,38780,38782,38784],{"text":38779,"start":35954,"end":35972},"Ja, ich glaube mir auf mein Bauchgefühl hören.",{"text":38781,"start":35972,"end":36060},"Ich glaube, das ist was, was ich über die letzten Jahre am stärksten gelernt habe, dass ich meinem Bauchgefühl sehr stark vertrauen kann und dass man manchmal dazu neigt, das zu überschreiben mit Fakten und sich das wegzuaktionalisieren.",{"text":38783,"start":36063,"end":36104},"Und dass ich einfach festgestellt hab, dass ich in der Vergangenheit noch mehr hätte auf mein Bauchgefühl hören müssen.",{"text":38785,"start":36106,"end":36134},"Und das ist was, was ich meinem jungen Abend nicht gerne sagen wollen würde.",79,{"sentences":38788,"speaker":67,"num_words":36787,"start":36137,"end":36146},[38789,38790],{"text":34807,"start":36137,"end":36138},{"text":38791,"start":36141,"end":36146},"Vielen Dank.",{"sentences":38793,"speaker":1436,"num_words":37121,"start":36149,"end":36175},[38794,38796,38798],{"text":38795,"start":36149,"end":36155},"Danke euch.",{"text":38797,"start":36155,"end":36168},"Vielen, vielen Dank für die Einladung.",{"text":38799,"start":36168,"end":36175},"Hat Spaß gemacht.",{"sentences":38801,"speaker":88,"num_words":37442,"start":36177,"end":36259},[38802,38804,38806,38808],{"text":38803,"start":36177,"end":36187},"Hat uns auch Spaß gemacht.",{"text":38805,"start":36187,"end":36199},"Schön, dass Du da warst.",{"text":38807,"start":36199,"end":36214},"Schön, dass Du dir Zeit genommen hast.",{"text":38809,"start":36216,"end":36259},"Wenn ihr da draußen noch Fragen habt zur Euromaus oder zu anderen Themen, dann könnt ihr gerne eine E-Mail",{"sentences":38811,"speaker":1436,"num_words":36806,"start":36263,"end":36297},[38812,38814],{"text":38813,"start":36263,"end":36280},"schreiben denn Tennis at Programm.",{"text":38815,"start":36284,"end":36297},"Euromaus at programmiert Punkt bar.",{"sentences":38817,"speaker":88,"num_words":37782,"start":36301,"end":36430},[38818,38820,38822,38824],{"text":38819,"start":36301,"end":36368},"Oder kommt auf unser Discord Server und stellt da eure Fragen oder hinterlasst einfach gerne Kommentare und Bewertungen auf den ganzen Social Media und Podcast Plattformen.",{"text":38821,"start":36368,"end":36379},"Wir freuen uns immer.",{"text":38823,"start":36379,"end":36416},"Wir lesen auch alles fleißig mit, auch wenn wir nicht ehrlicherweise immer zeitnah antworten können.",{"text":38825,"start":36418,"end":36430},"Zum Beispiel, dass wir Gleich",{"sentences":38827,"speaker":67,"num_words":37623,"start":36430,"end":36512},[38828],{"text":38829,"start":36430,"end":36512},"könnte man auch aus dieser Folge, obwohl live haben wir immer schon schwer gemacht, aber Leons Idee mit diesem mit, ob Du nun son Armer machst, son, der Programmierer und Lotum.",{"sentences":38831,"speaker":88,"num_words":36756,"start":36516,"end":36557},[38832,38834],{"text":38833,"start":36516,"end":36536},"Aber mehr dazu bald nächstes Jahr oder so.",{"text":38835,"start":36536,"end":36557},"Ich weiß gar nicht wann die Folge kommt, vielleicht",{"sentences":38837,"speaker":67,"num_words":38219,"start":36557,"end":36600},[38838,38840,38841,38842,38844],{"text":38839,"start":36557,"end":36567},"auch übernächste, whatever.",{"text":594,"start":36570,"end":36571},{"text":34807,"start":36571,"end":36573},{"text":38843,"start":36576,"end":36585},"Lea, vielen, vielen Dank.",{"text":38845,"start":36585,"end":36600},"Hat dir sehr viel Spaß 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